The Black Pill: New Technology and the Male Supremacy of Involuntarily Celibate Men

[–]hutavan 27 points28 points29 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Scarce12 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Coincidentally, there's similar language on Wikipedia throwing shade at the term "misandry"

In the Internet Age, users posting on manosphere internet forums such 4chan and subreddits addressing men's rights activism (MRAs), claim that misandry is widespread, established in the preferential treatment of women, and shown by discrimination against men.[3][4] This viewpoint is denied by most sociologists, anthropologists and scholars of gender studies who counter that misandry is not at all established as a cultural institution, nor is it equivalent to misogyny which is many times more prevalent in scope, far more deeply rooted in society, and more severe in its consequences.[5][3][6] Scholars criticize MRAs for promoting a false equivalence between misandry and misogyny.[7]: 132 [8][9] The modern activism around misandry represents an antifeminist backlash, promoted by marginalized men.[8]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misandry

[–]Passionate_Reposter 10 points11 points12 points 3 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]Trepptopus[S] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]zxilofon 14 points15 points16 points 3 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Trepptopus[S] -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Blackpill beliefs are distortions. Sorry. Like, looks do matter, and height is helpful but they aren't deterministic. And they don't take precedence over other factors, not even online.

Looks and height matter most online. Looks and height matter moderately in hookup scenarios.

Looks and height lose a lot of their salience when you get past first impressions. In dating and romance at least.

The biggest problem with blackpill is that it makes some false assumptions about human nature. The refutation of the blackpill isn't "looks don't matter at all" or "looks only matter a little bit sometimes" or "looks sometimes matter maybe" it's literally "your conclusions are based on some cognitive distortions that make you interpret things incorrectly"

If looks were THE salient factor in mating and sexual reproduction, then males would reflect that. The modern male would reflect that.

[–]NadaBeautiful12 13 points14 points15 points 3 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Trepptopus[S] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I'm sorry but I have a life outside of reddit.
I do encourage you to do more digging into the "science" of lookism and the issues with those studies and the issues about how accurate such studies can be. As well as how limited they are.

Some of this goes well beyond lookism to deeper structural problems with the incentives for positive results. Null results often don't get published and that leads to some undesirable skewing, as null results are important.

Ultimately, yes there is a halo effect. But we don't operate in a sea of strangers. We aren't primed for operating in a sea of strangers, our behavior in the lab looking at people we don't know and assigning traits to them isn't how we behave in person nor is it how we evolved. In our personal lives with people well known to us, personality and character and actions count for a lot.

A bunch of studies showing that people behave in X fashion online with strangers doesn't translate to behavior in person with people known to them. We are complex social animals and human nature doesn't boil down to a dialogue chain nor a series of "if then" inputs.

[–]NadaBeautiful12 11 points12 points13 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Trepptopus[S] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

My life is great. Sorry that you're not getting the success you want.

I do find it interesting that you want so badly for looks to be the determining factor in everything in your life. Like, why? How does this belief serve you? How does it help you predict what will happen? Does it improve your life in some way that I am not seeing?

I don't get the obsession with biological essentialism, but hey whatever floats your boat my guy. You enjoy being "right" I'm going to enjoy being happy.

Edit: Linking a thread "what would/did change your mind toward/away from black pill belief" https://www.reddit.com/r/IncelExit/comments/10b9bj5/what_woulddid_change_your_mind/

It's not just "what would make you not believe black pill?" but also "under what circumstances could you be persuaded of the validity of black pill?"

[–]NadaBeautiful12 13 points14 points15 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Speedytrix 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Hyena_Utopia 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

If looks were THE salient factor in mating and sexual reproduction, then males would reflect that. The modern male would reflect that.

Would you please clarify what you mean by this? Reflect how

Im guessing you mean all men would be tall 'chads' if this thesis was correct. But the only issue with that notion is that we kind of are. Every generation is growing taller due to mostly the tall men getting to procreate. Compared to the 1900's the average man is way taller and way more good looking. We can thank our female ancestors that we dont all look ugly like neanderthal/homo sapiens still. Their female sexual selection allowed us to walk on this earth as tall, beautiful and more etheral beings than our more primal ancestors.

A huge benefit with having a species be gender dimorphic is the filtration of weak genes in favour of good ones. If only half the males get to reproduce every generation, then evolution occours. Humanity evolves into being even more tall, beautiful and ethereal. Which is why inceldom isnt a bug, its a feautre. A necessity. To call them failures because of their personality is just added cruelty and gaslighting.

[–]zquatzANDoatz 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Blightning421 26 points27 points28 points 3 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[+]Trepptopus[S] -29 points-28 points-27 points 3 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]Blightning421 38 points39 points40 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]FastSascha 26 points27 points28 points 3 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

The misogyny of incels and incel spaces isn't really a hot take. It's pretty obvious. I mean when the language used to describe women is completely dehumanized it isn't a big leap to conclude that incels hate women. In short, what you're alleging doesn't make much sense.

This is sloppy thinking. You you repeat the very fallacy that is brought to your attention:

First you just state that the misogyny of incels and incel spaces is obvious.
Then your procede to infer other claims from a statement that you just stipulated.

The way out:

By compassion. Omit the instinct to just lump many people together. The incel places is divers in itself. There are people beat down by tragedy, people who have drawn wrong conclusions, people who are objectively fucked, people who are assholes, people who just feel lost and are happy to found a place that welcomes them etc. (You'd feel compassion for a aggressive dog that was beaten his whole life in the backyard. Perhaps, many people in those incel places are just that. Everybody has a limit)
By providing proper evidence and arguments beyong stipulations.
By going the extra mile since you aren't at a neutral place and are therefore obligated (by the principle of intellectual integrity at least) to go the extra mile.

What you are doing is being a pure meat eater, going to a vegan forum and stating "that vegans are grey-skinned weaklings is pretty obvious".

What might not be a hot take in your social circle is one in another. You might open your eyes and be more socially sensitive (which is achieved by just thinking one more step ahead).

[+]Trepptopus[S] -11 points-10 points-9 points 3 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

So, you accuse me of making inferences and then you tell me what I think about incels and what I would think about an aggressive dog.

Here's the thing. I've heard your rhetoric. It's incorrect. We can talk about the ways in which you are incorrect and I will happily talk about ways in which the blackpill, redpill, and manosphere are filled with grifters and misandry (not just misogyny, the misogyny is loud and obvious so it gets attention but the misandry is more harmful to those who make up those spaces and are being shilled to by the grifters)

The misogyny of incels and incel spaces is obvious and the ways in which the manosphere, redpill, blackpill and mgtow intersect and influence and inform each other are also obvious and don't take a lot of research.

That there are people here who are saying that science refuting blackpill isn't salient to this sub lets me know that this place is at least for some of you an echo chamber. Merely one more space to go to get your biases confirmed.

I get it. The blackpill absolves you of blame or responsibility for your loneliness and your misery. It also locks you in and serves to keep you miserable.

You assume that I am ignorant of any of your experiences on the individual level. You assume incorrectly. I have several people who are blackpilled in my DMs. I like them. I see the misogyny and the anger and the pain and the frustration and I still like them and I speak to them, and they are still blackpilled. But yes, tell me how I need to work on compassion and learning and all that.

[–]FastSascha 7 points8 points9 points 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Trepptopus[S] -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]FastSascha 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Trepptopus[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]FastSascha 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]zxilofon 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Trepptopus[S] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I actually did attempt to address his points, and then had came with an ad hominem of his own and sidestepped my points to score a "dunk" and talk about what a rake he was.

Here's the thing. You presume that I have a hate on for incels when I spend a good amount of my free time trying to get people out of those echo chambers and into the real world where they can have happy and productive lives.

I don't hate incels, I do hate the grifters that benefit off of peddling their BS. I do hate wheat waffles, and tate and all the PUA grifters selling expensive ass courses and consultations that don't work. I hate the doomer mentality of the blackpill. I hate the concept of all women as a homogenous hypergamous hive mind. I hate the way that very real suffering is taken advantage of. I hate every time someone tells me that feminism is the reason for elliot rogers. I hate the fucking misandry of the blackpill, the red pill and the manosphere.

Now, you call me a dick and accuse me of having closed ears, but you ignore the fact that the one person to engage in good faith "there is a loud minority in incel spaces that engage in hate speech and they drown out the majority and give incels a bad name" got good faith and decorum from me in turn.

Here's what this looks like from my end. I came into this space and I said something about the blackpill which is true, it's sexist. It's sexist against men and women both and I find both the misandry and the misogyny to be pretty repugnant) and instead of any meaningful engagement I've mostly gotten "No" and "you're an asshole" Neither refutes the point, neither changes the truth.

Do I think that everyone who has taken the blackpill is a shitty person? No. I think mostly people have been sold a shitty ideology by grifters. I don't see the blackpilled as monsters, I see them as victims.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]duffmanhb 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Trepptopus[S] -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I can see this being valid. Vocal minorities are a big problem in online spaces and in life in general (I'm thinking the entirety of twitter and most of american politics)

In my personal dealings with incels, while there is misogyny it's not rampant hatred and I don't think it comes from a place of wanting to harm women, just misunderstanding the forces at play and thinking women have a better deal than they actually do.

I see on the side panel a lot of stuff about online dating. But nothing about the issue of how few women are doing OLD anymore because shitty guys have driven them off (not saying these guys are incels, just, every woman I know has received several unsolicited dick pics and sexts and it contributes to women leaving those spaces)

In short. Online dating sucks for everyone. Men get ignored, women get harassed. Focusing on how shitty online dating is only gives guys (incels and black pill especially) a false framework. A lot of this shit stops mattering so much in person. It's why you see so many mid couples out in the world. Most of them didn't meet online.

Confirmation bias is a motherfucker though. I wish you all the best in love and romance.

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