I'm one of those "spectral" fellows that looks at your beautiful gender semi-objectively : [x-post from TwoXChromosomes]

guywithaccount · 2013-09-29T23:46:28+00:00

Look, I think there's probably a space for a conversation about providing men with realistic dating advice and women with realistic expectations, but I don't think this is that space, and it sure as hell isn't that conversation.

edit: also, reading the comments makes me cringe. Everything about this makes me cringe. Someone get me some brain bleach. Downvoting OP.

raptorrage · 2013-09-29T12:20:16+00:00

If you're so intelligent, why can't you figure out how to make people like you? Everyone on 2x called you rapey because you said women wanted to be bent over the nearest horizontal surface and fucked over their protests. The way your 2x post was written was very unsettling and a bit creepy. If you had written it saying that you wanted advice about relating to women, and not written a semi-coherent rambling piece, you would have gotten advice or at least steered in the right direction.

fractal_shark · 2013-09-29T15:47:41+00:00

Let's go through your post and look at why people would react negatively to it.

As I am still an organism shaped by evolutionary pressures (i.e. the pressure to continue my line),

Opening up by saying that you are in thrall to an evolutionarily-enforced desire to procreate is creepy and raises all kinds of red flags. It removes your agency from the situation. You don't take responsibility for the aspects of your personality/behaviors that make you unsuccessful at getting women to like you. Rather, you attribute it to some "natural" state of biology.

I am inclined to understand you all, to better please you and thereby get what I need.

Now you are othering the audience you are trying to addressing, telling them that they all are mysterious creatures beyond the ken of man. Further, this lumps all women together into one small group, reducing the entirety of their personalities to just the quality of being a woman. And saying that the only reason you care about "pleasing" women is so you can "get what you need" is far from convincing. It says that you don't care about women as people, only as objects to get you off. Sex can be a cooperative endeavor, where everyone involved is trying to get everyone off, not just selfishly caring only about themselves. In my experience, this is generally the more enjoyable way to do it.

Also, it's creepy to imply that you feel this way about all women, that every woman you see you are sizing up to determine how much you'd enjoy sex with them. Don't address women as a collective in the way you are doing.

I'm finding it difficult to simulate the arrogance-without-handsomeness that you claim to be attracted to,

Calling your audience dishonest is not going to endear them to you.

and would like some advice on how best to exhibit my maleness. The mixed cues I was advised to pay attention to in my formative years did nothing to prepare me

Now you are saying women are two-faced, again insulting your audience.

for the way you lovely, lovely (,lovely - seriously, have any of you really looked in the mirror?)

Creepy creepy creepy eww, especially in context of your earlier insults to women. Telling someone they are "lovely" isn't very convincing when it follows comments calling them dishonest, two-faced, and an object.

females

Referring to women as "females" makes you come off as creepy. Just say "women".

truly respond. I can play the big bruiser, the macho man, the ...fuck-machine,

Are these the only three roles you can play? These caricatures of masculinity? You are making it seem you think that women just want someone to perform masculinity at them, that the mere presence of of a "macho man" is enough to get them completely wet. Implying that all women are attracted only to this narrow spectrum of masculinity is yet another backhanded insult at your audience.

but I do need confirmation that this is acceptable before I can do so. As I said, I've been conditioned to expect wholly different women than actually exist.

Again insulting your audience.

I hope none of my post violates your sub's rules, because I would really, really appreciate your feedback on how to be a better man for you - even if the very request disqualifies me, specifically.

Yeah... Saying you want to be a better man for them isn't convincing when you earlier said that you only cared about pleasing women to the extend that it let you get off.

And one of your comments from that thread:

Furthermore, an appeal to enumerability to demonstrate individuality is fallacious.

Saying women are all the same.

There are trillions of ants on the planet that operate in the same manner as every other ant.

Comparing women to insects.

As far as I know, you think you want to be treated as an individual, when in reality you want to be courted by a male who will bend you over the nearest horizontal surface and ignore your protestations a-la '50 Shades of Grey'

Telling women you know what they want better than they do and you believe that you should ignore their stated desires to impose your will upon them.

All in all, your post was very insulting and dismissive to women in general. You got comments saying you were being rapey because you said that you thought you know what women want better than they do, and will ignore their lack of consent. You should not be surprised at the reaction you got.

rightsbot · 2013-09-29T11:10:16+00:00

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raptorrage · 2013-09-29T12:18:32+00:00

a bit pointless with the post removed.

ogphmiismp · 2013-09-30T07:37:07+00:00

Okie doke. On this sub we talk a lot about how men are not the omnipotent robots feminists make us out to be. We're susceptible to fear, loneliness, pain, etc. We're human beings - homo sapiens - and just like any non-asexual species we have evolved to seek out partnership. Predictably our minds punish us severely when we fail at this. This is the situation in which I find myself. When I tried to express this deep pain and longing for something fulfilling, several people jumped on me with malice and without hesitation. I was quickly banned from the sub I posted in, and not a single person came to my defense (except on /r/MensRights - when I x-posted. Thank you, brave individuals. Your posts gave me hope. Not for myself, but for the future).

We also talk a fair amount about male suicide statistics. Soon (within the month if I can save up the money) I will be one of those statistics. If I was a woman I would have been helped 15 years ago. Somebody would have shown me compassion, taken pity on me. But I'm not a woman. I'm a misogynistic creepy rapist (it's not about what's true, it's about what feels true, right?), so I don't deserve help. If anything I deserve to die.

So I'll say this: human beings need sex. They need intimacy. They need to feel safe and accepted and loved (regardless of what that sentiment really consists of). Maslow wasn't talking complete shit. I can feed, clothe, and shelter myself, but no one ever taught me correctly how to get someone to love me voluntarily. So I guess I'll succumb to exposure, of a variety. My heart is out in the open and the elements are harsh.

I look forward to this post being deleted. I only hope someone will save it somewhere and think back to it it when considering why men kill themselves at a disproportionate rate.

ogphmiismp · 2013-09-29T18:02:58+00:00

So from what I can gather from all the well-constructed criticisms (i.e. creepy! rapist! disgusting!) is a few things:

I posted wrong. I said stuff that hurt people's feelings in a sub where that's considered a crime against humanity. This is clear from the fact that my post was deleted very quickly
I didn't fawn over women nearly enough. I thought I did, but I wasn't going to prostrate myself totally when I subconsciously knew that I wasn't going to get any helpful responses (I do that more than enough irl, and wanted to elicit some honesty for a change).
I didn't ask for advice on how to relate to women. I didn't. I don't want to relate to women. That's a futile aim. They've spent their entire lives being socialized in a way that's nearly unrecognizable to me, as a man - they practically have a different culture. Furthermore, not being able to relate to women is a worshiped status among socially successful men ("bitches be crazy, yo", "don't bother trying to understand women, they don't make sense", or some variety of that sentiment is pretty much the first thing anyone in a relationship will tell you about women - even their SO). Why should I pursue a path that isn't correlated with success?
I admitted to having biological impulses. Probably my greatest sin. Admittedly, I knew this one might cause some stir, but thought "hey, I'm posting on a website full of intellectual people who will thoroughly consider the true motivations behind human interactions before rebutting my statements!" Nope! Any man who wants to have sex with women is a creepy rapist. Unless you don't admit that - then you're boyfriend/husband material.

Number 3, I think, perfectly illustrates the point I tried to make about women saying they want one thing but truly wanting another. If you ask a woman what she wants she'll tell you what she thinks she's supposed to want. "I want a sensitive guy who understands my feelings" or some other mind-numbingly false banality. I actually don't know why I expected different on a sub dedicated to women and lesser men parroting these cliches at each other all day, but I had to try something.

So now I understand even less than I did before. Even supposedly intellectual feminine cabals (I expected a sub on Reddit to be at least mildly coherent) devolve almost instantly into accusations of "creepy, misogynist rapist" at the first hint of a vague feeling of offense. This despite the fact that I'm a stranger on the internet who expressed complete alienation from women.

Doesn't a real rapist consider himself God's gift to women?

raptorrage · 2013-09-29T12:58:27+00:00

Have you seen some of the things women read to cause arousal? It's nearly all adultery, rape and grotesque variations thereof. So I guess you can take being called a rapist lightly, so long as you don't actually rape. I suppose you're taking it lightly then as well. Few women can actually love men I think. They're mostly very displeased by the idea of other women having you, if you're something to brag about. Seems as if your value to a woman is a function of the feelings of jealousy the idea of other women having you provokes in her. I think I read that somewhere and it rings true to me. When the jealousy overcomes their dislike of you the violent rejection will subside and turn into a sick and twisted form of mating behavior. I'd say you're better of just getting the hell out of dodge, but I think possibly pheromones or something can make you unable to just save yourself. People always say Genghis Khan was a terrible rapist spreading his seed, but I think if you're around women for too long you get manipulated into this kind of sick activity.

HolySchmoly · 2013-09-29T14:51:30+00:00

OH dear. I know this feeling. But I also know you're wrong. You're not wasting your time pursuing the opposite sex. But I'm not sure what to tell you.

Title	I'm one of those "spectral" fellows that looks at your beautiful gender semi-objectively : [x-post from TwoXChromosomes]
Author	ogphmiismp
Upvotes	1
Comments	99
Date	September 29, 2013 11:08 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1ndaah/im_one_of_those_spectral_fellows_that_looks_at/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/im-one-of-those-spectral-fellows-that-looks-at.1162608 https://theredarchive.com/post/1162608

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