Is Forced Fatherhood Fair? (NY Times)

Nutz76 · 2013-06-13T17:27:04+00:00

Ahem...

"If a woman makes a unilateral decision to bring a pregnancy to term, and the biological father does not, and cannot, share in this decision, he should not be liable for 21 years of support ... autonomous women making independent decisions about their lives should not expect men to finance their choice."
--Karen DeCrow, former president of NOW

Relevant:

http://www.avoiceformen.com/video/legal-paternal-surrender/

rapiertwit · 2013-06-13T17:29:31+00:00

in the comments:

* The opening premise that birth control and abortions are readily available in the US to all or even most women, can hardly be considered accurate at this point in time when even Roe v Wade is threatened, and many groups (unfortunately) are actively trying to stop birth control access, abortions, morning after pills, and insurance payments for these services. After it becomes true that reproduction control is truly available for all women, then you can bring up this discussion. But not until then.*

Thanks for letting us know when we're allowed to talk about something.

mazzyTuff · 2013-06-13T16:11:29+00:00

My body my choice.

That means no one has the right to use my time and labour just because someone decides to use me as a sperm bank.

I consent to sex.

Not to 18 years of raising a kid.

I tell any women upfront, "no kids".

If she does not agree she can find someone else she wants to sleep with who will agree to fatherhood.

boshin-goshin · 2013-06-13T15:26:08+00:00

Great to see this in the New York Times.

boshin-goshin · 2013-06-13T16:52:04+00:00

This has been reposted like 5 times today.

DavidByron · 2013-06-13T15:43:55+00:00

It's a shame that the feminist hate movement is taken as the only group that should have an issue with fatherhood. It's like having an article on whether black people should be treated fairly and saying, "let's ask the KKK what they think should happen" as if they were the only interested party.

Social-Justice-Dame · 2013-06-15T21:40:35+00:00

Newsflash. If you impregnated the women, the baby is your responsibility now. Deal with it. Contraception is different. The women's right to choose? That's her right to not have the baby in the first place. Birth control and abortion are there because not all women can afford to care for a child or will even survive pregnancy. HOWEVER. IF YOU DON'T WANT A BABY IN THE FIRST PLACE, MEN: -DON'T SLEEP WITH THE WOMAN. -USE A CONDOM, IT'S NOT THAT HARD. -MAKE. SURE. SHE'S ON BIRTH CONTROL.

IF SHE GETS PREGNANT ANYWAYS, DISCUSS YOUR OPTIONS. IF SHE WANTS TO KEEP THE CHILD, THAT IS HER RIGHT. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO IMPREGNATED THE GIRL, NOW THE CHILD IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. TAKE CARE OF THE KID, PAY CHILD SUPPORT, DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO. BECAUSE GUESS WHAT? YOU SLEPT WITH HER. YOU MADE THAT CHOICE. NOW DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES AND BE A FATHER.

tartarosfalling · 2013-06-13T21:47:26+00:00

This is actually an interesting thought experiment. But in order to properly address this idea we have to get rid of the false equivalence with abortion.

First, let's get a something straight: women do NOT have some special privilege that let's them opt out of motherhood.

Pregnancy must be treated like a medical condition because pregnancy is a medical condition. I'm not saying that women never get abortions simply because they don't want a kid, of course some women do. But the right to have an abortion is based on a woman being able to control her own body, not on the right to abandon a child.

This comparison isn't just apples and oranges, it's fruit and idk what exactly, but something that definitely isn't fruit.

So women have the right to control their bodies. How novel! What other things can they do?

Well, they can give the baby up for adoption or make use of their local safe haven laws. But this isn't a gendered thing, it's an agreement thing. Both parents have to terminate their parental rights for an adoption to go through (ok, it's a little more complicated than that but we're doing the short version). And safe-haven laws are meant to protect the baby. More women make use of them then men but that's not the point.

The issue here is the termination of parental rights and responsibilities once the child is born and their partner has chosen to remain a parent. And neither men nor women have that option.

Just so everyone is clear: women have rights over their body, laws exist to protect abandoned babies and both men and women are stuck in the same boat of 0 options once the child is born and their partner has decided to raise the baby. Ok? No one group is getting any more rights than any other group here except for the babies and that's because they're you know, babies. Women also have the privilege of actually carrying the baby but you're going to need to take that up with mother nature.

It's not just fundamentally incorrect to equate the right to choose with the right to abandon a child, it's dangerous. Abortion is supposed to be rare, and if we tell women that the only way they can get out of being a mother is abortion we're sending a dangerous message.

While women more commonly are left with sole parental duties, there are men who raise children that their partner gave birth to but have no interest in raising themselves. Both men and women are on the hook for child support. That's because rights and responsibilities are *intertwined.* We have a system set up in which both parents have equal rights, equal claim to the child. But that also means that they both have a responsibility to the child.

Now that we've got that straight this is actually an interesting thought experiment, letting parents terminate their rights at birth. Note, I said parents. If we're going to consider this both parents get the option. This requires really changing how you view the role of parents and family in society but I'm not against taking a hard look at how we do things now and what might work better. By all means, let's consider this idea. I personally think that there are a lot of other things more worthy of my time and attention, but I'm not going to dismiss the idea just because the people who came up with it don't fully understand abortion and came up with this concept as a false equivalence. But if we're going to examine this issue and debate what it means to be a parent and what role family should play in the future of society we need to actually understand what we're talking about.

2013-06-14T00:18:58+00:00

tldr: wear a condom

Title	Is Forced Fatherhood Fair? (NY Times)
Author	boshin-goshin
Upvotes	18
Comments	18
Date	June 13, 2013 3:25 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1g9t9v/is_forced_fatherhood_fair_ny_times/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/is-forced-fatherhood-fair-ny-times.1171348 https://theredarchive.com/post/1171348

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