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Defendants demand proof: Show us photos of alleged victims' genitalia

93re2

August 9, 2017
8 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2017/08/09/genital-cutting-defendants-demand-proof-show-us-photos-alleged-victims-genitalia/553059001/
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Post Information
Title Defendants demand proof: Show us photos of alleged victims' genitalia
Author

93re2

Upvotes 8
Comments 10
Date August 9, 2017 10:28 PM UTC
(8 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/6sp1wj/defendants_demand_proof_show_us_photos_of_alleged/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/defendants-demand-proof-show-us-photos-of-alleged.1176076
https://theredarchive.com/post/1176076
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Comments

[–]Consilio_et_Animis 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

This is going to be a fascinating case, as if this is the most mildest form of FGM possible, a slight scraping of the tip of the clitoris, or more often the clitoral hood. So little damage is caused, that often nothing can be seen, and/or it quickly heals with no scars.

So no wonder the pro-circ crowd are getting very worried, as there are two possible outcomes:

  1. The defence argument of "religious freedom" is rejected.

  2. The defence argument of "religious freedom" is accepted.

The defence have engaged the well know lawyer Alan Dershowitz, and being Jewish, is heavily pro male genital mutilation.

Now if option 1 is the result, then how on earth can MGM be justified for "religious freedom", as the damage is so, so much worse than the FGM performed here?

But if option 2 is the outcome, the feminists will go barking mad nuts, and the case will go all the way to the supreme court. And there is no way that the establishment can withstand the collective outrage of the wider feminist movement. Plus many, many ordinary folk like me (not a "feminist") would be outraged as well.

So either way it's going to be interesting.

[–]contractor808 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

You're kidding yourself if you think feminists will go nuts over legal FGM. In fact, a lot of states don't have anti-FGM legislation and I'm not aware of feminist campaigns to enact them. They've barely made a fuss as it is in part due to intersectional pecking orders. I've read more on this case from niche places like jihadwatch than secondhand Huffpost/Salon/Jezebel/etc. To be sure, there will be some media attention (especially if it can be pinned on the Trump admin), but it will die down rather quickly once the likes CAIR, ADL, and others make their publicity statements.

You can be sure the backlash will be greater if religion is ruled inadequate as a defense. The antisemitism/islamophobia lobby is much more motivated, has enough victim credibility, and has an actual history of success on this topic.

[–]mikesteane 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

a lot of states don't have anti-FGM legislation

Can you name them?

[–]I_lurk_u_long_time 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

According to the infinitely reliable Wikipedia, 24 US states have specific laws against FGM. There's also a federal law banning it everywhere in the US for any woman under 18, and "some" states without a specific FGM law use other laws to prosecute it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation_in_the_United_States

That said, lots of states don't make things illegal when it would be redundant with federal law that's unlikely to be repealed, so I think I agree with your point - feminists would be upset if FGM for a woman under 18 were legal somewhere in the US.

[–]WikiTextBot 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Female genital mutilation in the United States

Female genital mutilation in the United States occurs across the country.


[ PM | Exclude me | Exclude from subreddit | FAQ / Information | Source ] Downvote to remove | v0.24

[–]HelperBot_ 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Non-Mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation_in_the_United_States


HelperBot v1.1 /r/HelperBot_ I am a bot. Please message /u/swim1929 with any feedback and/or hate. Counter: 99718

[–]contractor808 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What, off the top of my head?

[–]Imnotmrabut 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

FoxNews - 'Female genital mutilation' horrors exaggerated

May. 03, 2017 - 8:03 - One woman who voluntarily underwent what she describes as 'female circumcision' tells Tucker that the outlawed procedure is a cultural practice that should not be referred to as mutilation

Video

[–]93re2[S] 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The type of FGM Fuambai Ahmadu chose to undergo is relatively extreme. She had her clitoris and labia (and I would presume her clitoral hood as well) cut off as an adult, as part of an initiation ritual.

She claims there's "no difference at all" in sexual sensation/sensitivity before and after, but obviously that's rather hard to swallow. Once tissue is cut off, you can't feel normal sensation in that tissue anymore.

[A]nimal studies that show when a nerve is transected, and the distal tissue is amputated, the proximal nerve undergoes acute axonal swelling [93-95]. After acute injury, the axon begins to sprout and branch at the injury site. Without the distal nerve, this frustrated attempt at re-innervation results in a bulbous, disordered tangle of axons, Schwann cells and fibrous tissue. Histology of the male circumcision scar shows amputation neuromas, Schwann cell proliferation and the bulbous collection of variably sized neurites. Amputation neuromas do not mediate normal sensation and are notorious for generating pain. Animal studies show that extirpation of the external genitalia results in acute retrograde degeneration of the nerve axon back to the spinal cord [96]. Therefore, the changes in circumcised male sexual behaviour [81] may be related to a central nervous system alteration by retrograde axonal degeneration, or to peripheral nervous system damage by loss of the prepuce ridged band and amputation neuroma. It is assumed that amputation neuromas also form at the female circumcision scar, although we are unaware of a formal histology study.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1464-410x.1999.0830s1034.x/abstract

[–]thrway_1000 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

http://web.archive.org/web/20170809232154/http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2017/08/09/genital-cutting-defendants-demand-proof-show-us-photos-alleged-victims-genitalia/553059001/

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