f(14) interested in the MRM and the Honeybadgers

azazelcrowley · 2018-05-28T20:30:51+00:00

How did you become an MRA? Was there a specific event in your life that led to you joining the movement?

I was working my way through my beliefs and being skeptical of them and looking for criticism of them and evidence against them, and found the honey badgers. In the end, I found the egalitarian case against feminism more convincing than the case for it, and joined the MRM.

What do you personally believe is the biggest problem facing men that the MRM is fighting?

Gynocentrism and feminist monopoly on discussion, the complete misrepresentation of our movement by journalists. If we can get people to hear us, they generally come around, and the people preventing that are feminist lobbyists and journalists.

Do you see feminism as the enemy of the MRM?

Yes. Think of it as a system imposed on a population. This is like asking; "Is imperialism the enemy of you guys who want a free india?". Are their hypothetical Empires that don't treat us like shit? Maybe. This one does, so "Imperialism is the enemy" seems fair. Feminism as practiced by our society, our institutions, and the population, is anti-male.

Do you believe the MRM can overcome the media bias and fight for its goals without being shutdown for things like claims of sexism?

I hope so.

Would you identify yourself as someone who believes everyone is equal?

To some extent yes.

Would the MRM put aside its differences with those who identify as moderate feminists to achieve their goals? Do you think they would do the same?

I'd go marching or whatever with them on a particular issue on a case by case basis but I think their worldview is inherently dysfunctional and anti-male and won't actually fix the issues facing men. I don't have any faith in them working with MRAs. It's not a matter of moderate, the gynocentric framework of their ideology predisposes them toward female supremacy, making prejudice and supremacism less pronounced doesn't make it moderate. I will work with feminists who think feminism is only suited to solving womens issues and accepts the history of the movement trying to control mens discourse and activism in such a way as to appropriate it for womens benefit was fucked up and selfish and ultimately used just to push more privilege for women and shut down mens attempts to organize, and who thinks the MRM is the movement to fix mens issues. So basically, I'll work with MRAs who call themselves feminists.

Were you ever a feminist?

Yes.

How do people react when you say you’re a MRA?

Depends on the people and the place.

It's good your investigating things. You should try hanging out here a bit more, there's plenty of issues that come up daily and reading about them can be informative. Welcome to the reddit.

(As a bit of advice, don't say "I'm a feminist" while here if you're going to post.)

RapeMatters · 2018-05-28T17:03:19+00:00

1) I was a feminist. I was also raped by a woman. I tried to talk about this to my feminist friends. It didn't go well, to put it mildly. I tried bringing it up in other feminist groups, it went even more poorly. Then I did research on what has been done for men in my case by feminism, and found that the movement has been trying to protect my rapist since before I was born.

2) I think the biggest problem facing men is basic equal protection of the law. Right now, the law favors women in basically every way, and we should be equals.

3) Only to the extent it made itself so.

4) I'm a pessimist, so no. But I'm also stubborn, so I keep trying.

5) Should be treated equally under law. Aren't currently, but it's the goal we should strive for.

6) I'll make a "deal with the devil" as the saying goes, sure. They have only to ask.

7) Yes. Not radical feminist, but feminist.

8) I typically don't. I fear the backlash. I may be stubborn, but I have a family, I'm not stupid, and I can't afford to put them in poverty because I want equality.

2018-05-28T18:11:37+00:00

Honey badgers are great people, I love them all and everyone associated, they are doing gods work.

That said, i am fairly certain that this feeling is v much not a mutual one.

Actually, it was badgers all the way down for me as well. The 1st night I stumbled onto this subreddit I posted in a thread on men's right to choose / legal paternal surrender / financial abortion, and the term 'financial abortion' was being used, i posted that I thought this was very bad choice of language it being the time of occupy and anything having financial in the name would certainly be doomed.

well it turned out to be allison tiemons thread and I had taken that contrary position, with a reply that could be construed as tone policing, so i was banned.

now, i had no idea who she was, but found out fairly soon, that night, and I sent her a message like "I was just banned from men's rights by white knights for daring to disagree w you' She must then have had some pull with the mods here, and even tho she did think i was wrong she used that pull, and i was unbanned and could continue my good work.

i think it was at that point that i decided this was a reasonable and honest place, men's rights, staffed and populated by reasonable honest people, and that MRA was thus a name to wear with pride.

CountVonVague · 2018-05-28T21:04:28+00:00

What do you personally believe is the biggest problem facing men that the MRM is fighting?

People unironically and uncritically saying MRAs are Patriarchal Misogynists who want to oppress wxmxn just because they want to see the rights men have be brought up equal to the level women currently enjoy.

tenchineuro · 2018-05-28T17:49:40+00:00

Would the MRM put aside its differences with those who identify as moderate feminists to achieve their goals? Do you think they would do the same?

Feminism is anti-male, men cannot work with them for common goals as their are no common goals. Feminism blames all the problems they've invented on men.

2018-05-28T16:54:36+00:00

Congrats on being intelligent and articulate at your age. What exactly do you want to know? Like in detail

shit-zen-giggles · 2018-05-28T18:45:10+00:00

How did you become an MRA? Was there a specific event in your life that led to you joining the movement?

I'm not an MRA, but I consider many causes the MRM tries to address important.

What do you personally believe is the biggest problem facing men that the MRM is fighting?

You watched the Red Pill. I think Paul Elam said it pretty well: Trying to understand it, is like trying to understand a snow storm one snowflake at a time. I don't consider any single issue standing out. If you put a gun to my head and made my life depend on it, I'd pick divorce/custody, since it affects two generations at once.

Do you see feminism as the enemy of the MRM?

This movement's actions are the source of many of the problems. I'd still consider enemy to strong and loaded a term.

Do you believe the MRM can overcome the media bias and fight for its goals without being shutdown for things like claims of sexism?

There have been quite a few uplifting developments lately. Had you asked end of last year, I had said "hell no", now I'd lock in a slighty confident maybe.

Would you identify yourself as someone who believes everyone is equal?

We are all equal in that we are all different. Genetically and by experience. We should all have equal opportunity . When it comes to equality of outcome, I don't think that quotas do anything. Giving disadvantaged people more help and support? absolutely. Lower the bar for them? I don't think that helps in the long run. Dole out positions based on genitals? I don't think that helps in the long run.

Would the MRM put aside its differences with those who identify as moderate feminists to achieve their goals? Do you think they would do the same?

The MRM is not the catholic church. There is no leader. There are just idividuals. The same is true for the other side.

Were you ever a feminist?

I was sympathetic to the movement quite a while ago. It has changed since then, no I'm very skeptic.

How do people react when you say you’re a MRA?

I'm smart enough not to. Therefore no reactions.

You might want to watch this TED talk from Cassie Jaye (the creator of the red pill) if you haven't already: MEETING THE ENEMY A feminist comes to terms with the Men's Rights movement

horseyhorseyhorsey · 2018-05-28T19:12:23+00:00

Obvious fishing account.

erenthia · 2018-05-28T19:55:46+00:00

Partially the same as you. There were a lot of stops along the way but GirlWritesWhat and Alison Tieman were a huge influence on me
Male Disposability.
Yes. But it's also one of the biggest enemies of women.
You're here aren't you? Old Media is dying.
Equal in terms of moral worth? Absolutely. Congruent in every respect? Definitely not.
Actually we already have. Christina Hoff Sommers is the primary example. But for the most part, feminists hate us in the literal bigotry sense of the term.
Yes, a lot of us here were.
I usually don't tell them.

2018-05-28T20:28:05+00:00

I'd suggest watching the movie the red pill by Cassie Jay.

YouTube, Janice Flamingo, Christina Hoff Summers.

I am praying for the day men and boys will have the same rights as women. That's all I want , equality.

Nion_zaNari · 2018-05-28T21:52:09+00:00

it peaked my interest

Piqued. It piqued your interest.

2018-05-28T21:15:15+00:00

Forgive the length. Hopefully this is helpful.

I can't distill my current position down to one moment. It was definitely a series of reflections, books, and experiences that led me to this 'movement'. It's pretty hard to describe how I got here without writing paragraphs, but I'd say seeing the rising hatred pointed towards my gender (m) made me think more critically about the modern feminist movement, and look into more examples of double standards, rising inequalities suffered by men, and injustices perpetrated by the government towards men. The lack of attention on these issues, and the rising resistance to even have reasoned discussions about these issues both have pushed me farther into the "MRA camp"
I think the biggest problem men face is our educational system. The public school system is set up in such a way that men fail to graduate high school at a much higher rate than women, and this system has ripple effects throughout the rest of their lives. I'm not sure how to go about fixing it, but we certainly need to get more men into gradeschool teaching positions. The second biggest problem we are facing is society at large. We need to be able to meet and support other men without being labeled misogynistic, we need access to fraternal organizations that acknowledge the fact that men face certain problems that are unique to men, and the same reasoning that justifies women only spaces applies to men as well. That being said - men support groups struggle a lot with hatred and misogyny, that is impossible to deny. But the beginning of feminism was rife with men haters, so I see no difference. So far, there is no MRA equivalent of Sally Miller Gearhart, a prominent feminist advocated for the genocide of men down to 10 percent of the population. As long as we make our goals clear - to help men, not to harm women - we should be fine.
No. I see humanity as the enemy of the MRM. Humanity suffers from shortsightedness. We like to point to the actions of individuals and claim they represent the group. Hatred, bigotry, racism, sexism, they all share the same mechanism. We like to pick enemies and fight them. True, feminists have formed a habitual hatred of men, and often treat accidental or minor disputes as "oppression". But everyone is guilty of this. In our efforts to create a clear, black and white understanding of the world, we shove people into categories, we treat certain individuals too harshly, and are too lenient with others. What a lot of members of the MRA don't realize yet is that we owe feminists a LOT. They have brought into mainstream discussion concepts that we can use to fight against injustice. They made our job easier. Currently we suffer from the same faults as they do - we have lost sight of the bigger picture. Women don't deserve to be treated as a member of their gender - they are individuals, and deserve to be treated in a way that their individual actions merit. The same thing goes for men. This is, largely, a feminist concept. But not really, its an ideology that stems from a few religions, and humanist philosophy. Its fairness, justice. In some ways feminism acknowledges this, in others they fail miserably. For example, the philosophy of toxic masculinity is one of the most harmful and damaging philosophies out there. I can speak more on this if you want. There's a lot to unpack.
We need a brand overhaul. We may never overcome bias unless we actively consider how to present ourselves to the public, and how to change minds. People think that, as Ghandi said, "Truth is by nature self-evident. As soon as you remove the cobwebs of ignorance that surround it, it shines clear." and that's true but not the whole picture. We need to fight against the public's depiction of us as white, fat, 30 something lonely virgins that hate women. If we can show the public that they were wrong in their assumptions, they will start to question the other assumptions people make about us.
I like the phrase in Ratatouille - "Not everyone can become great, but greatness can come from anyone". We aren't all equal, but we all deserve to be treated as individuals - as equals, and let our behaviors speak to our character. Many people have advocated for this in the past, but somehow we keep forgetting. Because men in the past have been perpetrators of violence, sexism, and racism, people seem to have difficulty with the idea that we need to treat men as individuals too, and not insinuate that the actions of individual men are due in part to their maleness, instead of a fault in their character.
I certainly hope so. My dearest hope is that the MRM can become trans inclusive, feminist inclusive, inclusive to anyone who shares the belief that justice matters more than reparation, that inequality cannot be justified by the mantra of "fixing past injustices", and that everyone deserves sympathy. Not just because it's right, but because I know for a fact that we will never achieve our goals until we do this.
Yes.
Well my boyfriend dumped me and I lost a few friends. Nothing unheard of, nothing too bad. Still hurt though.

jeff_the_nurse · 2018-05-29T00:56:15+00:00

Young child me noticed how men were getting harsher prison sentences and punishments, dads were always losing custody, and having to register for selective service.
I believe that it is custody bias because children are affected by this and deserve both parents.
Not as the enemy, but as the movement whose members lack the perspective we have when it comes to men.
Absolutely--we just have to stay united through all of the struggles. That's how black civil rights, women's suffrage, and all other obstacles were ever won.
Absolutely--hence I think women should have to sign up for the draft and share taxpayer-funded domestic violence services.
I do believe that we would. We welcome help from anyone who offers it, and are very grateful for any and all support.
I was when I was told it's about equality for women and men. I left when all of the bad things (mansplaining, manspreading, manterrupting, manflu, toxic masculinity, dick move, etc.) started to be named after us. This was done by the same people who slammed good things named after us (mankind, human, person, etc.) as sexist because "they're not gender-neutral."
It varies. I get laughed at sometimes, I get angry lectures other times, and I also get support. No matter what the reaction, it never brings me down--I only grow!

Triskerai · 2018-05-29T02:34:27+00:00

1) I don't consider myself an activist because I reserve that term for people who do more than reply to Reddit threads and get in occasional arguments with friends. I got into MRM when I went to college and was immediately told I'm a rapist by the schools mandatory sexual violence course. Without knowing who I am, in college I'm immediately at risk of being one of the worst kinds of criminal.

2) The biggest enemy of MRM is "women are wonderful" bias. Not only is this the underlying theme behind many of our primary objectives, but it's so ingrained into society and men that we have to overcome that to get anywhere with our goals. It's worth mentioning I have no bias against women, they're just not any better or worse than men.

3) Feminism in the dictionary sense of the word isn't an enemy of MRM at all, nor were it's early forms. But today feminism has been so hijacked by radicals and power players that it's inevitably become an enemy of MRM.

4) Jordan Peterson is fighting for men and against radical feminism and is finally breaking the general media silence on the struggle of men, and shining a spotlight on the issues, if not the movement itself. Maybe that will someday change, and the articles written about him by most of the media reveal their heavy bias, but at the very least its much needed attention and legitimacy.

5) Noone is equal, and nor should they be! We should live in a society that treats all equitably and fairly, but truly equal no- I'm more athletic but dumber than Einstein, I'm taller than Kendrick but less gifted, etc. and I see no issue with those differences or differences in situation as a result.

6) I hope so, on both sides.

7) I wasn't even aware of gender issues until the university system in America told me I was a criminal.

8) I don't say I'm an MRA specifically, but people tend to have very emotional, illogical reactions and cite bad statistics and anecdotes when I state my opinions.

Thank you for your open mindedness! It's awesome to see that you are willing to step outside what may be your comfort zone to engage with new ideas.

jp_mra · 2018-05-29T04:01:00+00:00

1) After the Trump election, my fb feed and the popular media was non-stop anti-male anti-white bashing. Everyone around me called me the devil. So I did my research, eventually found MGTOW and became enlightened.

5) We aren't clones of each other, we will never be "equal." Equality is only a legal and moral concept. I believe in meritocracy, a gender and color-blind system.

8) I once told a feminist I was an MRA. She said 'the term MRA doesn't sound like it's for equality'. I responded, 'what if I said I'm a masculinist and I create equality by empowering men?' Her face was priceless.

SamHanes10 · 2018-05-29T22:52:56+00:00

How did you become an MRA? Was there a specific event in your life that led to you joining the movement?

I identify as an egalitarian rather than an MRA. This means I am MRA when it comes to fighting to equality for men, and I support feminist causes when it comes to fighting for equality for women.

What do you personally believe is the biggest problem facing men that the MRM is fighting?

Unequal treatment by the law and by society. This includes: domestic violence, where most Western societies are unwilling to recognise the extent of the harm caused by women on men; forced fatherhood, where the consent of the man is not required for him to become a father and pay child support; unwillingness of society to address paternity fraud, under the guise of protecting children but effectively condoning a major harm afflicted on men by women; assuming that all men are potential sexual predators when this is only a tiny subset men who behave in such way, and ignoring females as sexual predators thus allowing them to continue to inflict harm on others; discrimination against men in certain sectors under the guise of improving diversity, for example a blind recruitment trial was considered to be making things 'worse' simply because males, rather than females, were benefiting.

Do you see feminism as the enemy of the MRM?

If feminism is defined as a movement for equal rights, then no. However, many prominent feminists are misandrist and fighting for female supremacy. Such feminists, and the misandrist form of feminism they espouse, are an enemy for the MRM

Do you believe the MRM can overcome the media bias and fight for its goals without being shutdown for things like claims of sexism?

Yes. I believe many, of not most, people are reasonable and believe in equality. Feminists have almost total control of the narrative, but the hard data clearly shows that there are issues affecting men that are being unaddressed (such as studies showing similar rates of rape experienced by men (with female perpetrators) as women (with male perpetrators), and data showing that domestic violence affects both men and women to a similar extent). While some feminists downplay such data, it can not be truly suppressed. I think once a reasonable person realises they've been misled by such feminists, they will develop a somewhat anti-feminist mindset and be more supportive of the MRM, perhaps like what you've experienced.

Would you identify yourself as someone who believes everyone is equal?

Yes. And I believe everyone should be treated equally.

Would the MRM put aside its differences with those who identify as moderate feminists to achieve their goals? Do you think they would do the same?

Yes I would. Some of them might, others will not.

Were you ever a feminist?

I used to identify as a feminist because I believed that a feminist someone who was interested in equal rights for everyone. I was, however, always uneasy about feminist concepts such as one-sided oppression, patriarchy, negative stereotyping of men, and unwillingness to listen to male points-of-view. I also thought that feminists using gendered terms (such as 'mansplaining') was ridiculously hypocritical given that I was a strong proponent of the 'feminist'-idea of gender neutral language.

I had an awakening a few years ago when I read the material of Warren Farrell, which made it clear to me that historical 'oppression' of women was anything but - the reality was that there were prescribed gender roles for both men and women. I also read criticisms of feminism on the internet and started to realise that a lot of information I'd been fed, such as domestic violence being something men did to women, was ideologically-based rather than based on reality, and that the feminists driving such concepts, in spite of the data, must actually be misandrists and/or female supremacists rather than truly being interested in equality.

Altogether, this information made me realise that most forms of feminism were actually gynocentric, rather than egalitarian, and were exploiting the historical gynocentric female-protective instincts of society to benefit women. Therefore, I no longer identify as a feminist, and will not do so even if I support feminist causes because that well has been poisoned.

How do people react when you say you’re a MRA?

As above, I don't identify as an MRA. I am quite good at explaining my views, and supporting my views with data, therefore most discussion I've had in support of MRA-causes are received reasonably well.

khowington · 2018-05-30T04:51:21+00:00

I was a progressive and eventually found that no matter my opinions, I was found at fault for being a white male. In the last two years I was accused of harrassment that was never questioned simply because I was a man, while I was openly sexually harrassed at work by a female supervisor and nothing came of it. I chose to open my mind to what is the truth and not marketed. Not having a real conversation. We have epidemic issues facing a society, this includes both sexes. Types of feminism yes. Wanting all men to die or claiming inaccurate information to support an ideology. Eventually when society has to pay for not having an informed plan on solving it's issues. In the context of what can be considered equal. I'm not a proathelete but we're both people. If someone is lying or behaves poorly, they are equal in terms of rights but not my respect. I think you get the gist. Yes. We can agree on change. It would solve these issues from being a distraction from the actual process of change. A moderate one. Gut reaction is that I'm a dumbass bigot. After explaining my position some are willing to have conversations. I think the movement is about correcting misinformation and progressing rights for men to be heard.

Free_kittens2468 · 2018-09-03T05:30:29+00:00

1: no specific event, just listened to youtube atheism, and when they started to criticize modern feminism more I listened. Very slow gradual process where i came to see how ideology and religion are very similar, and can do some very bad things. 2: Many problems but same legal rights is the main one. Also to a lesser extent is the overall view of men in society as expendable, and not needing compassion the same as women. To many problems to list here, but it will be real easy to find more on this sub. 3: I see modern 3rd wave feminism as an enemy of MRAs. It's mainly that ideology, and things like intersectionality as the problems that are opposed to MRAs. 4:I don't see much hope, but that won't stop me from being angry about it. 5: That's a hard philosophical question, because it seems to depend on qualities/triats that we subjectively choose as better or worst than others. HOWEVER I still very strongly agree EVERYONE should have the same rights under the law, and should be treated ask equals with as few exceptions as humanely possible. 6: I personally believe that modern feminism is too far gone at this point, but if a big enough group proves me wrong, and makes feminism about equally I would work with them. Though I'd rather we switch to egalitarianism instead. 7:not really, but I as far as I can remember I wanted equality, and the same legal rights. 8: I don't tell many, but most still have the same naive ideas of "men already have all the rights", and Feminism is about equality" to be fair though none of them as far as I can tell were never invested either way. Thanks for reading hope this answers your questions.

Title	f(14) interested in the MRM and the Honeybadgers
Author	WillowWisp0412
Upvotes	24
Comments	24
Date	May 28, 2018 4:18 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/8mr91l/f14_interested_in_the_mrm_and_the_honeybadgers/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/f14-interested-in-the-mrm-and-the-honeybadgers.1177673 https://theredarchive.com/post/1177673

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