Pointing out that men acted bravely in a mass shooting is not a strong argument. We need something better.

PlastIconoclastic · 2018-02-16T20:20:08+00:00

First of all, there is no benefit of addressing the concept of “toxic masculinity”. The word can go the way of “tranny” as far as I am concerned. It was constructed with a political purpose like the careful construction of pro-life as the way to reference a political position instead of abortion prohibitionist, or anti-woman’s choice. Feminists use it with the intention of making it sound like the flaw is being male, not the social expectations of society on males. This is the purpose.

nikdahl · 2018-02-16T20:50:03+00:00

Saying that men acted with heroic sacrifice in mass shootings is not an effective counter-argument to feminist ideas about "toxic masculinity".

I don't see that as being any different from what you are saying.

One man may kill, but three men turned up to sacrifice their own lives for to save the lives of others

You are essentially making the same argument.

theothermod · 2018-02-16T19:56:44+00:00

We need a better counter-point. Mine is that this is the dark side of men's genius - men are both the very best and the very worst of humans. Without it, we would still be living in grass huts or even extinct.

But feminists will counter with an argument that they are most afflicted by the worst of men, and they will ignore the best of men.

CreeperCooper · 2018-02-17T02:11:58+00:00

The reason men turn into shooters is because they have no safety net like women do. No social support, no emotional support, they can't express how they feel. And if they do, they are forced to shut up, because society doesn't accept 'weak' men. They won't be helped even if they ask for it, 'they just got to man up.'

You're trying to argue against their argument, but instead of doing that you should dismantle what they are arguing. It's not toxic masculinity that makes shooters, it's how society treats them.

It's the same reason so many men commit suicide. It's the same reason why men are so depressed. It's why men are most likely to shoot up their class mates.

Luchadorgreen · 2018-02-17T08:07:03+00:00

Point out the sexist context that "toxic masculinity" is always used in.

They will say that "toxic masculinity" is not an inherent trait to men, and yet the only criteria for an act of "toxic masculinity" is for someone to do a bad thing while male. Therefore, the sex of the individual is innately part of the judgement of what is and what isn't toxic masculinity, which makes it sexism.

To be more clear, the people who are using that term don't care if the man considers himself to be "femme" or feminine. Being biologically male while doing a bad thing is enough for them to shoehorn their act into the "toxic masculinity" category.

Meanwhile, women, no matter what they do or how destructive what they do is, will never have their actions categorized as toxic, neither toxic femininity nor toxic masculinity. This makes their labelling of toxic masculinity discriminatory. Force them into that frame. Make them recognize this. Point out the hypocrisy.

aussietoads · 2018-02-17T03:23:59+00:00

Toxic masculinity is the child of feminism.

True or false? Who cares?

Reason has never been feminists best friend, but Goebbels strategy has long been their favourite.

Tell a big lie, the bigger the better, and tell it often.

6space6space6 · 2018-02-17T03:55:03+00:00

Uhhh? How about this - most men are not murderers and most women are not murderers, the men and women who are not murderers are less toxic than the men and women who are? Therefore toxicity is not just male, it is also female, and some females are far more toxic than most men (e.g. the thousands of women who are murderers?l) I don't get the confusion? How are men the best and worse people? Most men are not murderers and some women are, therefore if some women are worse than some men, wtf? How does that make men worse? Every evil commited by a man has also been commited by a woman.

2018-02-17T05:15:16+00:00

Saying that men acted with heroic sacrifice in mass shootings is not an effective counter-argument to feminist ideas about "toxic masculinity".

Yes it is.

I've never seen anyone but men die or put their own asses on the lie to save lives. Women have a bad habit of clutching their pearls during a bad event.

This is just a fact and it's one reason why this made up toxic masculinity bullshit needs to go the way of the dinosaur.

andejoh · 2018-02-17T10:54:04+00:00

How many lived in "broken" homes without their fathers? I'd probably start there.

Razorbladekandyfan · 2018-02-17T14:54:05+00:00

I agree that the counter argument is bad, but yours is actually worse.

soupladlelad · 2018-02-16T22:18:38+00:00

Well I agree that that it's an issue with masculinity but it's not that it's toxic. It's lost these are socially inept young men raised in a world without positive structure for men. There is no doubt that violence is masculine but these boys aren't learning to use it in constructive ways because it's not PC to direct that impulse in a world that wants to suppress men.

Their social ineptitude is also an aspect of the masculine crisis. We teach boys they should use force but not how to use it (violence vs assertiveness). We don't teach them to use ccommunication like we teach women. It is a problem with masculinity but it's not a toxic element that needs to be removed.

Title	Pointing out that men acted bravely in a mass shooting is not a strong argument. We need something better.
Author	theothermod
Upvotes	26
Comments	19
Date	February 16, 2018 7:46 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/7y1cvr/pointing_out_that_men_acted_bravely_in_a_mass/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/pointing-out-that-men-acted-bravely-in-a-mass.1179457 https://theredarchive.com/post/1179457

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