Please help me! I'm the king of friend zone! [long post, but it's life and death]

blammo1 · 2011-04-28T01:22:32+00:00

don't ask permission to hold a girls hand just do it. A good time is when you leave a building walking together.
I played footsie with a chick that I just met. She said what are you doing, I said looking at her boots and wondered if they would fit me. She got exited and literally said "I'm turned on." Then I suggested we go for margaritas across the street because they don't have them here. She protested. I said the old regular at the bar could come with us. He said, trust him but I have to go home. I asked if she was ready yet, she said yes and left half her beer. On the way out, I put out my elbow for her to hold. She did, then let go as if she didn't know me. Outside I grabbed her hand. She liked it... At the next bar, we sat at a table for four and I sat beside her and slid our chairs together before we sat down so our legs could touch. Before our margaritas came we hid behind our menus and kissed... You my friend, need to fake it till you make it. Getting used to touching takes practise there is no other way. You might get slapped, which will cause laughter and maybe a quick kiss at the most.
never whip out your wallet or penis to a girl. act like they are guys, except look in their eyes all the time. if you like drinking with them buy them a drink, but not for any other reason.
be honest about everything, but you don't have to talk about stupid things or say everything on your mind. If you never lie, then you get confidence all the time just from knowing you speak the truth.
if you are having sex, and are bad at communicating your wants, do it like this example. I was in bed with a lady and the third time we screwed, I wanted to use lube but did not want to ask. So I said, "hey, umm, uhh, do you suppose..." and she said "lube? OK"
the first time you are alone with a girl on a couch, you should be able to get her horny enough to go to bed. Get those hands busy! Pet her like a cat. In fact, treat them like cats too maybe... too needy and they run.
learn to rub slow. For example if you are massaging someone's neck, slow down and press a bit harder once in a while. They will probably close their eyes and moan. At that point you give a back massage or cup her boobs. Hey man, the world could end. Here do this, get a feel-good back massage. Then when you are giving a massage, imagine you are also getting it. You will get good. Tell her to moan if she likes something...
bring 4-6 condoms on dates... screwing someone you met 5 times the first night is normal with me. I know how to do it lots without wearing them out or making them sore... learn this. The first time you will come too quick. She will think you suck at sex. The second time she will be happy. The third time, she will be in awe. The 4th time she will joke about walking funny. The 5th time she will offer her anus and ask you to stay forever I find. Skip the anus if it hurts her or you think it is gross. Also, don't worry about cumming every intercourse on a night like that. Stop when she had enough and there will be more.
I use a drop of numbing spray under my knob when a chick needs it really fast for a long time (an hour). Chicks like that need to learn to orgasm hopefully you can teach them.
if a chick asks you questions about yourself, don't answer the truth, make jokes or return their questions and make them answer every question they ask you. The more you answer about yourself if she asked, or if you are trying to impress her, the less she will like you. Unless you are an astronaut. A good way is to make them guess, and then still don't tell them.
don't worry about ages. Here is a secret... if a chick is talking with you, and not serving you, or you're not in line, she wants you to try fucking her (or she is using you to make someone jealous, or not look like a loser standing all alone, or something)
girls can be sluts, guys can't. Not in girls eyes anyways. You can talk about all your conquests and she will like you more for it. Put it this way, females are slaves to peer pressure. If it was possible, they would all be doing the same guy. One guy would have all the sex with all women, pretty much. You know how in the movies, the two girl friends find out about each other and both dump the guy? Not realistic.
ignore other guys. Let me tell you, seeing a guy and girl leave a room does NOT mean they are having sex. Seeing a girl next to a guy doesn't mean anything at all relationshipwise. Even if they are holding hands, he might just be doing kino and they might not even know their names. Also, who they arrived with does not mean shit.
befriend everyone who is not a jerk, hold your head high, don't fight
never act like a wussy. I was watching this guy at a bonfire talk to a chick. He played it cool until she approached. Then they talked and he still seemed cool. Then he started talking about this ex girlfriend who went back with her ass-hole boyfriend when he could give her a home, love and everything she wanted. He probably thought he was telling her that he was available and would make a nice boyfriend. She literally crossed her legs and pointed them to me. Later that night, I simply said "walk me home?" and now we are just lovers after a long night of you know what, because she is 19 years younger.
don't text chicks about anything but when and where. Skip the late night phone calls... way too many chances to reveal your inner wimpy little boy self who was traumatised by mommy blah blah wah wah. If you want to get laid Woody Allen style, then look how much effort and failures he has. The Hulk would be a better role model. Hang up first. Be like my dad... hate talking on the phone and get it over with if You want. Wear the pants. Learn how to say goodbye and mean it.
modern women want to know if you are good in bed before falling in love. It should happen on the 2nd or 3rd date I say. You can do it on the first date, but you better be good or say goodbye unless she is really wimpy.
chicks know when their ass crack is showing, and who can see it. If you see it, her body wants to fuck you tonight or now, in Canada anyways.
watch Rocky 1, acting like that works. In fact, I happen to dress similar, minus the sweats. He is never an ass to Adrian and she is a dreamy good girl, what more can you ask for?
I don't dance anymore, not that I can't, it's just not natural for me to do when not alone. Ironically, I dance in my office all day by myself.

ThrowawayPUA · 2011-04-28T02:24:57+00:00

You will have difficulty dethroning me as King of the friend zone. My own tragic experiences caused me to study pickup. And as King of the 6000 word FR, I apologize but I don't have time to read your report in depth right now. But I really don't need to, these FZ problems are always the same. So I'll give you the summary of my usual advice.

Women do not put men in the friend zone, men put themselves in the friend zone. If you do not escalate, if you can not escalate, the woman will believe you are not interested in a sexual relationship. She will wonder why she made herself available to you and you did nothing.

If you're going to get laid, you're going to have to take some risks. A woman will forgive you for being too aggressive, but she will not forgive you for NOT being aggressive enough.

2011-04-28T01:22:27+00:00

Christ this shit is long... I couldn't read it all. Sounds like you dedicate a lot of time to these women like all AFC chumps do. You don't need to. Just kino and escalate. Move on within a week or two if she doesn't reciprocate. Talking hours and texting and shit... don't do that.

I'm into Indian women myself. Punjabi women are the best. So conservative but they are great lovers once you plow through all the resistance.

Keep up the good fight and read all the PUA material (watch BluePrint by RSD for a start).

sdtoking420 · 2011-04-28T01:16:18+00:00

You need to make moves on women. If a girl flies out to India to date you, kissing might be a possibility /facepalm.

MaysonNSS · 2011-04-28T03:37:35+00:00

Cancer is life and death, this is just frustrating

king_of_the_zone · 2011-04-28T11:01:03+00:00

I see you following the same pattern, over and over again:

Meet girl. Like girl. Impress girl. - Up to now, this is good. Your life is full with DHVs and the like which you can use, from your motorbike to your MMA skills. You are an extremely high-value male. Remember that.

Now, after you impress the girl, that is where you screw up. For one, it seems like you ponder and think too much about the girl. Just fucking go for it. The Dutch have a saying: "If you don't shoot, you'll always miss".

As I said before, you have a lot of value as a person. But you do not create a lot of attraction, by the looks of it. You need to do that, in order to get the woman to see you more than "That cool guy". Further on, I recommend you adhere to blammo1's list. It's pure fucking gold.

Now, you do more than just not build any attraction - you bottle up everything, and then you pour it on the girl, who already knows you for a while, out of fucking nowhere. This. Freaks. Girls. Out. I had something similar a few months ago (though I just told a girl that I was interested in her), and you know what she told me?

"Really? Wow, you're a great guy and all, but you never gave me any signs you're attracted to me."

This is the problem in 99.999% of the FZ cases. You do not create nor show attraction. That is your problem. Of course, I don't expect you to go and tell a girl, a day after you met her, "You know, I like you a lot!". That's giving her value, expecting approval, so don't do that.

Remember, when you talk to a woman, what you say barely matters as much as how you say it, when it comes to attraction. You could say the silliest thing ever, but in a way that will fill the room with tension between you two - she will laugh, but you will see the spark of attraction in her eyes afterwards. Remember that.

I want to point out one thing you did pretty well, in my opinion:

We'd planned to go first week this month - Plans get postponed because she has to attend this seminar - I tease her saying "I hope you're not going to use up your half of our vacation budget for the seminar fees". She actually touches me for the first time ever (on my thigh) and says "No way! We're surely doing that trip".

You received a huge IOI there. Seriously. I'm pretty sure that if you've worked on a bit of attraction before that, you could've laid her that very evening.

I don't want to sound like an expert on PUA - 'cause I ain't, really - but I hope that I made sense and all. Go for it, dude! :)

l3fth4nd · 2011-04-29T20:55:00+00:00

Go out, hit on over 40 girls a week, this is the best tip anyone can give you. No, seriously, do it now.
Take a bootcamp, I like RSD, Jeffy and Tyler are their best instructors; you're a programmer so I assume you have the cash to blow.
Escalate more.
???
Profit.

chumpta · 2011-04-28T00:41:56+00:00

intredasting... i've always found that egg sandwiches rile a woman up sexually. cook a few and see where it goes.

king_of_the_zone · 2011-04-28T00:32:42+00:00

Part 2

Then I met this girl on match.com, call her H, we dated a couple of times, and she came on pretty strong, much sooner than I ever expected. we exchanged steamy SMSs, had some heavy makeout sessions in a park and 2 days later went on a roadtrip. It was only then I realized how good sex could be. I'd never lasted for more than a minute with my european ex-wife, but with H, I went on for a record 25 minutes and she came thrice. We fucked like crazy during the trip and after, and pretty soon the parents knew we were in a relationship. After about 3 months or so, they pressurized us, and because we were too fuck-stoned to know better, we got engaged and after a few weeks we were married. Things were as good as they get for about 6 months, then we had major disagreements. I never put any restrictions on her, she would come and go as she pleased to her parents house and she had no domestic responsibilities or anything. My mom did live with me, but there was not really much interaction between them as my mom kept busy in her own writing work, my wife went out to her job 9 to 5 and soon after she came back we'd go to MMA class together, be back, have dinner and to our privacy. So long story short, wife says she doesn't like my mom, gives no reason, says we gotta move out pronto, I say give me some time, anyway I'd planned to move out in a few months. She refuses to resolve the issue, insists that I've to choose between her and my mom. We look for a new place, she insists that when we move, I should leave nothing behind, not even my workbench or tools as "It'll turn into an excuse for you to spend time there". Then I snap and I tell her that what I did in my time when she was not around was none of her business, and if i liked to have my mom around what was her problem. I told her let's look for a duplex and let mom live within the same building (she can't live alone obviously, this is India!), but she said, that was not a solution for her. It wasn't as if she was married into a traditional Indian household where wives have to take care of the household chores, no questions asked, and are supposed to be supplicant to parents-in-law, not have a job or a life outside (It's horrible I know, but that's 98% of Indian households). The cropper came when she actually decided to book a house on Mothers day (oh! the irony), and I could bend no more, I told her it wasn't gonna work, either give me a few months to work out some compromise as to living arrangements, perhaps let's get a duplex, or it's curtains on our marriage. She said, she could not wait, and we agreed to end our marriage.

I'm aware a lot of you will feel this is a bullshit way of dealing with things, that I side with my mother, but we're Asian, our parents never live alone. Her parents live downstairs from her sister's family and were well cared for. I would have even moved out if it wasn't for her "I know even if we move you'll end up spending all your time with her, I want you not to have anything you need from her!" - That's crazy talk in India at least. Now that I reflect back, there wasn't anything really holding up our relationship except the chemistry and the physical stuff.

So here I was 2nd time divorce and after a long long bike road trip (to the highest motorable road in the world) I calmed myself. I continued to keep in touch with Q, she knew all about what had happened and she said she understood (most of my close friends said I'd done the right thing, some others insisted I needed counseling and shyte).

... Continued....

king_of_the_zone · 2011-04-28T00:33:09+00:00

Part 3

After 4 months, I could hold it in no more, I spill my feelings to Q in an email - she freaks at first, then she calms down, discusses every aspect of what would happen if we got into a relationship - her parents, my parents, the age difference, the fact that she'd never been in a relationship, her studies and stuff. Over the weekend we talked and talked about this, and she seemed more and more convinced it would work, she said she had always wished she'd end up with a guy like me. I told her lets take it slowly, there's no hurry, I don't want to push you in any which way. I said all I want as of now is to be able to not hide my feelings from you and be able to honestly say whats on my mind, she seemed very happy that I wasn't expecting her to suddenly change how she acted or any physical stuff (she really was not OK with that). I was on cloud 999, it seemed like I'd have to go slowly but I'd found a real soulmate.

Two days later she tells me out of the blue that it can't work, gives no explanation. Over the next couple of weeks, she slips between "maybe in the future" and "I don't think so" and "perhaps but I can't say". I slip into "needy" mode, do her all sorts of favors, pick her up from 25 KM away, drop her home, ferry her around on my bike, help her on the day she got her 2 wheeler license (it would have never happened if I was not with her that day). Got her into an short internship with a really high up math professor that I work for. In desperation I kind of rant to her in person about how perfect i was for her and if she'd only give me a chance, she would never regret it. This spurs her into annoyance and she mails back that night saying she'd had enough of the fence sitting and she could never see me as more than a friend, and that I should stop expecting that she would ever be a romantic partner to me.

Friend zoned again! Fuck!

Meanwhile there was this other female friend of mine, call her J, I'd met her in a writers club year or two ago, we became good friends, and we'd meet once in a while and talk for hours. I'd lost touch with her during my marriage, my wife would have never approved to me meeting her tete-a-tete, but I continued to meet her every week or so afterwards. She is very untypical for an Indian, does not believe in marriage or monogamy, she's had a huge number of boyfriends but had emotional bonds only with a couple of them. She says she could never stay/move in with anyone except this one guy. Very feminist, very explorative, she seriously toys with the idea of going bi, because she's fed up with guys. So I'd be the one hearing about her past experiences, her escapades with guys and all.

Again pattern repeats, I fall for her - I mean you have 8 hours of non-stop non-boring conversation with someone on a regular basis , you fall for them right? I do anyway! I mail her about my feelings (she knows everything about my past "relationships" and stuff). She says "I've just got out of a long term relationship I need time". I wait, things are as before - She goes to a seaside resort to meet some guy from her past - When she's back, she tells me "You and me, we should do a road trip, just the two of us!". She suggests a very romantic place - I assume that she wants to explore a casual relationship with me, I'm very happy, I'd wished she would "fall for me" but a romantic/sexual getaway is just as good.

We'd planned to go first week this month - Plans get postponed because she has to attend this seminar - I tease her saying "I hope you're not going to use up your half of our vacation budget for the seminar fees". She actually touches me for the first time ever (on my thigh) and says "No way! We're surely doing that trip".

So seminar happens, next time I meet her, she says it's too hot to go on a seaside trip - and she has some personal issues to deal with, her sister is AWOL and her brother in law won't tell her where she is (her family is majorly fucked up). She says she'd want to do a trip to the North of India, no mention of taking me along (not a very romantic destination either).

I must mention that one of her oldest boyfriends is shacked up with her as a roommate, I have no illusions that they're not sleeping together, but she insists that she is attached to no one, and she is definitely not committed to anyone.

Then once again (why the fuck do I do this) - I spill everything I feel in an email to her - I say I want to be in a relationship with her, and why'd she back out of the trip suddenly and that I want a reply from her.

She tells me online that she needs time for a reply, and I wait, it's been 3 weeks now and I've met her 4 or 5 times. My gentle probing for a response results in just "I'll reply to you soon."

Damn fucking hell!

Summary and TLDR;

I mean I got my shit together, I'm confident, professionally doing great, physically pretty goodlooking, fit, I have a fulfilling life outside of women, lotsa friends, lot's of activity and buzz, always a center of attention in any group, great conversationalist - One guy told me last week in a party that I ought to write a book...

OK all that is fine but

1) Got married twice, each time I don't think I was really in love, they seemed to be much more attached to me than vice versa (second time seemed like total hormones and nothing else)

2) Friend zoned by a super hot, super smart American girl who said "You're so amazing, I don't think I'll meet anyone like you ever!"

3) Friend zoned by a super hot bicycle chick, who has a boyfriend, but goes fucks someone else randomly a week after we met, almost breaks up with her BF, but simply tells me the story and looks for support and advice. As usual all our interactions have been long conversations!

4) Friend zoned by a super hot young super smart college girl who said "Someone like you is what I have been dreaming of all my life" and once she mis-sent an SMS meant for her friend to me saying "What connection I have with X, I don't think I can ever have with anyone ever." ( X being me )

5) Sitting on the friend zone fence, almost got into some physical relationship with the girl for whom physical relationships are not a big deal. Can't even close the deal at least to fuck, with the girl who won't even think of it as a big deal if we do.

What the fuck is wrong with me, why do girls pretend to admire me, talk to me endlessly (and still do), but never look to me with lust or love or anything! I mean like I courted my first wife totally online, and same for couple of other girls, it's like I have golden words or something and I'm instantly in the "admiration/amazement" category, but somehow all I seem to have is a brain and a mouth to them, no dick.

Fuck my life! I'm almost at the point where I'm desperate enough to pay for sex now - for me thats the equivalent of suicide, and I know if I go that road, I'm finished!

king_of_the_zone · 2011-04-28T04:39:45+00:00

[permanently deleted]

FatLever · 2011-04-28T21:19:56+00:00

Hey man. Just out of curiosity, where in India are you located?

I think a lot of people are completely overlooking the idea that you're in India, and are giving you advice based on the Western Culture here in the USA, Canada, etc. I know TofuTofu is successfully seducing his way through all of Japan, but game in India is a different animal.

I was born and raised in India (spent around 7 years there with frequent visits every now and then). The one thing I've observed is that Indian women are like the biggest collective hivemind assembled on this planet. This is largely due to the media and the huge emphasis on families. In India, if you're seeing some girl, your own mom is more likely to be the bigger cockblock than that girl's female friend, a jealous beta male, etc. A significant part of Indian culture is very emasculating, so that's why a large number of Indian males are so beta in general.

From my experience, the key to gaming in India is social proof. Don't feel bad about friendzoning all the girls you encounter. In fact, I would encourage it. After you have enough in your social circle, go out with them a lot and use them as pivots. Try to limit your beta tendencies and you should be successful. Now, I can't comment if the girls you meet are suitable for LTR's (since that seems to be what you're ultimately after), but you should receive some great opportunities.

Hope this helps.

kruunch · 2011-04-28T04:06:51+00:00

You keep repeating your mistakes, again and again and AGAIN.. Learn from it! You need to work on your inner game.

Title	Please help me! I'm the king of friend zone! [long post, but it's life and death]
Author	king_of_the_zone
Upvotes	1
Comments	26
Date	April 28, 2011 12:31 AM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/gyvlo/please_help_me_im_the_king_of_friend_zone_long/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/please-help-me-im-the-king-of-friend-zone-long.1317813 https://theredarchive.com/post/1317813

Comments