When is giving considered being a "Nice Guy"?

CognitiveExplorer · 2013-04-22T08:45:53+00:00

The passages are dead on. Stereotypical nice guys do nice things expecting something in return. The key there is seeking something in return. Those who create value do so for the sake of doing so. They don't need anything in return and don't even expect anything to come from it. They make people's lives better because they enjoy doing it and nothing more. They help others because they want the best for others. Also they say no if things are unreasonable. No to insane requests, because they aren't looking to get anything in return so complying with an unreasonable request won't happen.

thatswhatshesedit · 2013-04-22T09:20:16+00:00

Here. Read this.

frogma · 2013-04-22T16:28:59+00:00

People are human, and I doubt many (if any) are capable of truly "giving value" 100% of the time -- at least, not without some expectation involved. So don't be too worried about that. Just try to recognize how often you do it, and cut down on it.
I think one of the main points being made is that you don't always need to give. You don't always need to feel that it's necessary just because. When you do it too often, especially if it's coming from a place of insecurity/expectation, it starts setting the wrong tone. You won't see this too often from someone like Bill Gates, but that's because he's one of the most famous, wealthy, and significant people in the world. You're probably not him, so if you're constantly giving, even if it's with no expectations, it's still gonna seem that way to other people, and might give them a bad vibe (depending on the situation).
Many men will do certain things for random women that they won't necessarily do for random men. "Chivalry" isn't bad, per se, nor is "being a gentleman," but realize that if you aren't doing these same things for men, then you're not being congruent. If you're not doing these same things for ugly-ass women, again, you're not being congruent. You're treating certain women differently than how you treat others, and that's gonna affect your mindset (or maybe it's the other way around -- maybe your mindset is affecting how you act. Either way, it's not congruent).

Point 3 is the biggest one, I think. Like I said, chivalry isn't really a "bad" thing, but it does show that you're favoring certain people for an arbitrary reason. Apply that to how you meet/date women, and you can probably see why it's problematic. In some cases, you might be putting certain women on a pedestal. In some cases, you might not actually be putting them on a pedestal, but that's how they're gonna perceive it, and it might be a bit of a turn-off, regardless of your intentions.

Basically, feel free to be very giving with people who have actually earned it -- don't just do it all willy-nilly. And if you're "giving" with everyone, that's fine too, but be aware that individual people won't necessarily know that this is how you are with everyone if they just met you.

Also, don't be afraid to take. If you're always giving just because it's in your nature, no big deal (except in the situations I mentioned). If you're always giving because you're too afraid to take, that's an issue. It likely means you're lacking in self-confidence.

Edit: To the last point, here's an example. When I was younger, I'd go downtown fairly often (to see baseball/basketball games, or just go to a restaurant and shit), and virtually every time a bum asked me for money and I had some to give, I'd give him some -- and in my great spirit of giving, I'd usually give a decent chunk of change (on average, a few bucks or so -- I once gave a bum 20 bucks for playing the Simpsons theme on his saxophone). I just always felt pretty bad for bums. But then I got older and lived in an area where there were plenty of bums that I saw on a daily basis. At first, I kept giving them money whenever they asked.

Before long though, I realized that I was losing a shitload of money myself (and I wasn't even earning my money -- I was in college without a job, so that money was coming from my family). I also saw various instances where a bum would ask for money, then use it on shit besides food/water. I also saw some "bums" who weren't actually bums. They actually made a decent living by telling false stories to people, getting a few bucks from them, then doing the same with some other people like 50 feet away (dude probably made twice the minimum wage by doing it). I knew another guy who would go to a bar in some town and ask for money from everyone because he "needed to catch the train." People would give him money, he'd catch the train, then he'd be kicked off at the next stop because he didn't have a ticket. At that stop, he'd go to another bar, tell the same story, take the train again, get kicked off again, and this would repeat throughout the night. I know this because he once came into the bar I was at, twice in the span of like two hours, repeating the same story. I threatened to kick the shit out of him, and haven't seen him since.

Anyway, here's my point: I usually don't give change to bums anymore, regardless of their story, and regardless of how adamant they are. In many cases, I'll even tell them to fuck off, and will only feel slightly bad for doing so. Previously, I had been afraid in that situation. I felt like "giving" was necessary and warranted. Now, I'm not afraid to "take" (I'm not literally taking anything, but you get the idea). I'll even openly threaten a guy if I feel like he's making shit up. I'll even humor him for a bit, just because I can, and after like 10 minutes of him explaining shit, I'll start pointing out the inconsistencies of his story. Why? Because I don't need to "give" all the time.

Nebula829 · 2013-04-26T05:26:23+00:00

Ask yourself, "Would I still want to give if I knew ahead of time I would get absolutely nothing in return?" If so, then keep doing what you're doing. If not, then don't.

As far as what other's think...fuck it.

DevsAdvocate · 2013-04-22T14:27:19+00:00

I read this book, and one difficulty is discerning when you're crossing the line from doing something good and selfless into "nice guy territory".

new_player · 2013-04-22T20:21:13+00:00

If you're doing something for yourself, then you're not being a "nice guy". If you genuinely get pleasure out of whatever it is you're doing (volunteering, donating money, helping granny cross the street) then it's just you doing your thing. Nothing wrong with that.

If you're nice because you expect that person to thank you, or because you want them to acknowledge you, or gain favor with someone else, that makes you manipulative. Don't do it (unless that's your ultimate goal).

Darabo · 2013-04-22T20:54:21+00:00

Wow, this sounds just like me. It's really an eye opener actually!

But how do I change this attitude? I really want to change but I don't know where to start to be honest...

fatherbrain30 · 2013-04-22T23:38:30+00:00

Use common sense. Being "Nice" and being "push-over" are two different things. Giving someone a helping hand with their car expecting nothing is fine.

Listening to a woman's problems everyday is not.

GetsAnythingHeWants · 2013-04-24T16:41:03+00:00

Giving can be associated with exploitable. I wouldn't be quick and generalize that every guy who hands things is a typical 'nice guy' (he is being nice, just not baring the characteristics of a "nice guy"), but I will agree that people who usually do give out things expect something in return.

It's a tricky one. You simply can't put everyone in the same basket for having a similiar trait.

It's all about the delivery, hands down. And the motive nonetheless.

tl;dr - inspect closely what's the motive behind the nice attitude.

Title	When is giving considered being a "Nice Guy"?
Author	YouMakeIt
Upvotes	6
Comments	13
Date	April 22, 2013 8:00 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/1cupci/when_is_giving_considered_being_a_nice_guy/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/when-is-giving-considered-being-a-nice-guy.1351088 https://theredarchive.com/post/1351088

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