[Discussion] "Models" by Mark Manson is revered on this subreddit to be a key learning tool. I tend to agree. With that said, are there any areas where Manson's framework falls apart?

ithearrow · 2015-01-04T22:12:10+00:00

I guess Manson's framework isn't the best when it comes to talking to groups, since his focus on the book seems to be creating strong 1 on 1 connections with a women. But you can still apply his methods, and achieve success in groups just that he dosen't really talk about how to approach women in groups mostly just solo.

IpickupGrandmothers · 2015-01-05T00:26:16+00:00

Sometimes, I'd say it's not so much his framework falling apart, but rather people misunderstanding it.

So his book is pretty much talking about being vulnerable, being honest, and being a boss. People ask, "how do I show that I'm vulnerable?" The problem is that if you have to ask how to show vulnerability, you're not being vulnerable. If you're simply being vulnerable, you're come across as authentically vulnerable. Asking how to show vulnerability oftentimes means you're not authentically being vulnerable.

It's like people asking, "how do I appear non-needy?" Don't be needy and you won't come across as needy. The hard part is being/becoming the type of man who, generally speaking, isn't needy.

BrinksNY · 2015-01-05T01:59:18+00:00

Being vulnerable works better when it's coming from a position of high value, and it's not the be-all, end-all of game. A man who has issues with other parts of his game is not going to do very well regardless of how vulnerable he presents himself. Further, I don't think you can become as 'vulnerable' as he advocates until your game is fairly solid and you have lots of interactions and experience under your belt. As such, I don't think it really clicks for newbies as much as others (or the reader themselves) think it does.

SUCK_MY_DICTIONARY · 2015-01-04T23:55:52+00:00

Personally, I think he tailored the book towards people who frequent meat markets. Some people don't live in cities, and it's just not like that. I particularly found the book pretty useless most of the time because the only time I could use its powers was when I was, say, at a concert or at some other large scale event with lots of people.

That said, I think he does point out that you need to go places to make these things happen. But if you're from a rural area, you'll know exactly what I mean when I say that the book won't really help you much because you just can't find jumping spots sometimes.

metshower · 2015-01-05T01:57:52+00:00

"Models" is important for self-improvement but I'm not sure how well it succeeds in getting us more 'results'. I, personally, have not seen results from using Mark's concepts, although I feel tons better about myself than I used to earlier.

I feel that Mark's principles helps you filter for Confident well-rounded women. But what if the vast majority of the girls you meet are low-self-esteem and have various insecurities (and you're just looking for a one night stand)? I think Models does not really address that. You will end up intimidating a lot of girls you could've otherwise had a decent time with.

Also, if you notice towards the end of the book, Mark gives suggestions for improving your conversation skills, etc. He covers all of this briefly and doesn't go deep into it, but this is what basic outer game is, and this is what all those other PUA guys spend a lot of time teaching. I think that part is important, even crucial, to your game but Models makes it sound like it's easy to gain those skills.

I'm also suspicious about demographics. I'm beginning to wonder if "I haven't yet found my right demographic" is just a lame excuse for why I have poor results.

I'm curious what others have to say.

badmillennial · 2015-01-05T03:43:06+00:00

The Models framework is much more compatible for day game than night game. The book is more about adding genuine relationships with awesome women to your life and then having sex with them - rather than running jerkboy nightclub game, which may actually work better under certain conditions.

TyServ9 · 2015-01-05T05:04:40+00:00

I felt his framework falls apart in a college environment. When you see the same people again and again on campus and at parties cold approaching is not the best way to succeed.

cheapclooney · 2015-01-04T22:34:57+00:00

He gets most of his scientific assertions laughably wrong. To the point where it makes me question the validity of everything else in the book.

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