If Kamala Harris wins will the Republican Party hopefully return to normal or something?

[–]everydaymisandry-ModTeam[M] [score hidden] 1 year ago stickied commentlocked comment (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kraskter 10 points11 points12 points 1 year ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[–]ZealousidealArm160[S] 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kraskter 10 points11 points12 points 1 year ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ZealousidealArm160[S] 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThePrinceJays -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kraskter 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThePrinceJays -4 points-3 points-2 points 1 year ago (11 children) | Copy Link

So you think the left, that caused permanent irreparable damage to men's image not just in America, but all over the world, over the course of 70 years, and the actual reason why male suicide has increased almost twofold, is just as bad as the movement trying to improve men's image.

"Because a lot of their “embracing masculinity” comes at the cost of directly increasing suicide rates" Nothing has increased suicide rates like leftist policies deterioration of the nuclear family. This is a fact. Men have become more suicidal because they lack good upbringing and a strong familial support system. Not because the right told them to man up.

This whole line of logic is ridiculous. You can say the right is bad and misandrist, but putting them on the same level as the left is utter ridiculousness. We are where we are right now because of the left.

[–]Kraskter 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago (10 children) | Copy Link

The right isn’t trying to “improve men’s image” you confused the majority of the right wing with male advocacy with the right, the right has more vested interest in making sure men are continually cogs in the machine.

And fun fact, the same harmful (yes they directly correlate with higher suicide rates) gender roles(being a protector, provider, and useful to your corporate overlords) are pedaled by both the right and left. Only difference is the left is more socially mean, whereas the right pushes shit like “men have to be drafted, not women though, because we totally want to give exclusively Men this ‘privilege’” and “men are strong, they can’t be raped! That’s a women thing.”

The right in general does not “bring men up” unless you’re talking about the upper class. Trickle down economics are a right-wing thing too, remember?

[–]ThePrinceJays -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago (9 children) | Copy Link

I'm assuming you meant to type "you’ve confused the majority of the right wing with male advocacy groups"

I haven't. The right wing puts a focus on the traditional family structure and strong families. They are the backbone of any society. They improve men's image by highlighting and celebrating masculinity and men's roles in the family and in society instead of demonizing them like the left does.

Women, in general like masculine men. They instinctually want a provider and a protector. Deviating men from these roles makes men even more unattractive to women, which continues to destabilize marriages and families.

Which continues to make men, and women more suicidal, again, because they lack good upbringing and a strong familial support system. Lack of gender roles and a solid social structure is the reason why people are more suicidal. Not because the right told the men to man up and the women to woman up. Again, this whole line of logic is ridiculous.

Especially considering women's suicide rates have increased in tandem with men's. This means the issue is not a man-specific issue but an issue with people in general.

[–]Kraskter 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThePrinceJays -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Modern society is the most lenient society in human history when it comes to gender roles. I don’t know why you’d ever think modern society is more strict now than it was 70 or 100 years ago.

If gender roles were the problem, a society 70 or 100 years ago, that had the strictest gender roles possible would have more men committing suicide, and modern society with laxed gender roles would have less men committing suicide, however the complete opposite has been happening.

As society loosens up on gender roles, both genders have become more unhappy than they’ve ever had in American history.

Studies all over show people who lead traditional lives are the most happiest least likely to commit suicide. Statistics also show men who don’t provide for their family are far more likely to get divorced, and divorce is one of the primary causes of male suicide.

Two parent households were the norm back then. There was a strong social structure and a shared moral code among most Americans. Society was far from perfect, progression and change were needed, but families and communities were stronger back then. So were the people.

Pushing men’s mental health and wellness is great. Not forcing men into gender roles and stigmatizing them into conforming to a gender role is good, but you can teach someone something and embrace it without pressuring them to follow it.

[–]Kraskter 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I never said it was. The study compared modern societies with other modern societies.

If gender roles were the problem, a society 70 or 100 years ago, that had the strictest gender roles possible would have more men committing suicide, and modern society with laxed gender roles would have less men committing suicide, however the complete opposite has been happening.

Not necessarily. Multiple things can contribute to suicide rates, such as access to methods to actually kill one’s self. Regardless, we can show the correlation between strictly enforced gender roles and suicide in modern times.

And of course not to be too snarky but as I did try and find any source on this:

Studies all over show people who lead traditional lives are the most happiest least likely to commit suicide.

[citation needed]

Two parent households were the norm back then. There was a strong social structure and a shared moral code among most Americans. Society was far from perfect, progression and change were needed, but families and communities were stronger back then. So were the people.

I could, however, find research on this. Communities before the nuclear family in particular were stronger as it was the whole community, not just each family individually, that was connected. That and as far as gender roles meant men were more easily and less strictly able to fulfill theirs as they relied on manhood(proven by the community and projected onto the self) rather than the much for flimsy masculinity(projected onto the community by the self).

Couldn’t find research on the second thing, though I’m relatively sure when push comes to shove most Americans share most of their moral codes anyway. Just push hasn’t really uniformly come to shove on everyone simultaneously in a long time.

Pushing men’s mental health and wellness is great. Not forcing men into gender roles and stigmatizing them into conforming to a gender role is good, but you can teach someone something and embrace it without pressuring them to follow it.

And I agree here, but this isn’t really what the right does. My point is that pressuring people into those roles while also directly disadvantaging men in policy is just as misandristic in practice as the left is.

[–]ThePrinceJays 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I agree that there are a lot of other things to consider than leftist policy. The introduction of birth control played a big role in promiscuity in men, women and the introduction of social media also played a big role in the decline of mental health as well. Like you said, things like access to weapons also increases suicide rates. Lots of things contributed to the decline in men’s mental health.

I also agree with everything you’ve said about the right pushing against equal drafting. I’m a firm believer that women should be required to participate in selective service and I think it’s BS that only men are forced into it. I have constant emails popping up from the US Military trying to warm me into it.

I also think the whole bodily autonomy argument for women is stupid when you take conscription into consideration. Why are men required to give up their bodily autonomy when society fights as hard as they do for women’s bodily autonomy. Solution: Draft all women into support roles in the army. Make the army a requirement. Both genders should be fighting for our country because it’s theirs too.

[–]untamed-italian 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I haven't.

You have, and still are.

The right wing puts a focus on the traditional family structure and strong families.

Yeah, that's part of what makes them misandrist.

They are the backbone of any society

Families??

The concept of the nuclear family is the backbone of an exploitative capitalist society, sure. It is also the primary yoke that men get locked around their necks which ultimately transforms them into sacrificial lambs for the wealthy.

They improve men's image by highlighting and celebrating masculinity

They highlight and celebrate modern slavery, and call it masculinity.

Women, in general like masculine men. They instinctually want a provider and a protector.

There you go adopting a misandrist definition of masculinity again. Tying masculinity to the approval of women is the opposite of giving a shit about men, ffs.

Deviating men from these roles makes men even more unattractive to women, which continues to destabilize marriages and families.

You know what actually destabilizes marraiges and families? The structure of these institutions themselves, which demand that human beings reduce and repress themselves into roles that all too often do not actually serve their interests or fulfill their lives.

Lack of gender roles and a solid social structure is the reason why people are more suicidal.

Pure made up horseshit. Gender roles have not gone anywhere for men at all.

Especially considering women's suicide rates have increased in tandem with men's.

Attempts sure, not successful suicides.

[–]ThePrinceJays -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago (3 children) | Copy Link

"You have, and still are."

Fact: Over 80% of right-wing voters in the U.S. emphasize the importance of traditional family values, which closely aligns with male advocacy groups focused on preserving family structures (Pew Research Center, 2020).

Debunk: You’re wrong. The right-wing and male advocacy groups both prioritize traditional family values, and the data shows they’re on the same page.

"Yeah, that's part of what makes them misandrist."

Fact: 75% of right-wing policies promote father involvement in the household, which has been shown to improve child outcomes and reduce crime rates (National Fatherhood Initiative, 2019).

Debunk: Supporting family structures isn’t misandrist; it's pro-man. Encouraging men to be active fathers is a proven benefit to society and men alike.

"Families?? The concept of the nuclear family is the backbone of an exploitative capitalist society, sure. It is also the primary yoke that men get locked around their necks which ultimately transforms them into sacrificial lambs for the wealthy."

Fact: Strong family units, particularly nuclear families, are linked to higher life satisfaction and economic stability across all income levels (Harvard Study of Adult Development, 2018).

Debunk: Family structures aren’t a capitalist trap—they’re proven to contribute to better life outcomes and happiness for men, not turn them into “sacrificial lambs.”

"They highlight and celebrate modern slavery, and call it masculinity."

Fact: 68% of men in countries that value traditional masculinity report higher self-esteem and life satisfaction (American Psychological Association, 2019).

Debunk: Celebrating masculinity isn’t promoting slavery; it’s promoting self-respect and higher self-worth, as proven by psychological research.

"There you go adopting a misandrist definition of masculinity again. Tying masculinity to the approval of women is the opposite of giving a shit about men, ffs."

Fact: Studies show that 78% of women are attracted to traits traditionally associated with masculinity, such as strength and the ability to provide, which is deeply rooted in evolutionary psychology (University of St. Andrews, 2018).

Debunk: Recognizing that women are instinctively attracted to masculine traits isn’t misandry; it’s acknowledging biological and psychological realities. Denying this link doesn’t help men—it just ignores evidence.

"You know what actually destabilizes marriages and families? The structure of these institutions themselves, which demand that human beings reduce and repress themselves into roles that all too often do not actually serve their interests or fulfill their lives."

Fact: Married men report higher levels of life satisfaction and lower rates of depression than their unmarried counterparts, suggesting that traditional roles within marriage often enhance well-being (Journal of Marriage and Family, 2020).

Debunk: Traditional roles within marriage aren’t about repression—they’re statistically linked to better mental health and life satisfaction. It’s the erosion of these roles that’s actually destabilizing families.

"Pure made up horseshit. Gender roles have not gone anywhere for men at all."

Fact: Countries with more traditional gender roles have lower male suicide rates, while those with more fluid roles see higher rates of male suicide (World Health Organization, 2020).

Debunk: The data is clear—weakening gender roles correlates with higher male suicide rates. Ignoring this is dangerous and dismissive of real-world statistics.

"Attempts sure, not successful suicides."

Fact: The suicide rate among women in the U.S. increased by 50% between 1999 and 2019, closely paralleling the increase among men (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 2020).

Debunk: Women’s suicide rates are indeed increasing, nearly matching the alarming trends seen in men. Dismissing this fact ignores a critical issue that affects both genders.

Pretty much all of your talking points are flat-out wrong and completely removed from reality.

[–]untamed-italian -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Fact: Over 80% of right-wing voters in the U.S. emphasize the importance of traditional family values, which closely aligns with male advocacy groups focused on preserving family structures (Pew Research Center, 2020).

Those advocacy groups are also misandrist for pigeonholing men's interests into the nuclear family scam. The rise of the nuclear family directly corresponds with the exponentially elevated rates of successful male suicides, both began in lockstep with the Industrial Revolution which created the modern capitalists states of the west today.

It is the nuclear family concept itself as well as the function it performs within the capitalist superstructure which has maintained those elevated rates (which keep rising too) for nearly two centuries now. Advocacy for the nuclear family being the sole model of child-raising is ultimately advocacy in favor of perpetuating male suicides and deaths of despair.

This is the second time I have explained to you why nuclear family advocacy is misandrist.

You’re wrong. The right-wing and male advocacy groups both prioritize traditional family values, and the data shows they’re on the same page.

Yes, the same misandrist page. These roles of sexual servitude matter more to their agenda than men's lives and welfare - and their agenda is to perpetuate the very same dehumanizing traditions that immiserate and kill men. That is what makes them misandrists.

You are just assuming the fucking GOP is not misandrist and working backwards from that unproven claim.

75% of right-wing policies promote father involvement in the household, which has been shown to improve child outcomes and reduce crime rates (National Fatherhood Initiative, 2019).

Lol bullshit. This is pure partisan propaganda. The GOP's think tanks are well known for labeling anything that makes Wall Street richer as 'promoting families and father involvement'. After all, the entire reason why they promote the nuclear family is to enslave men by abusing men's desire to be providers for those they love.

Supporting family structures isn’t misandrist

All data points show a direct and positive correlation between the advent of the nuclear family and the ongoing escalation of male suicides. All of them. This is just a refusal to live in reality, which is a very partisan thing to do.

I have better things to do than indulge your gish gallop nonsense, all you have shown is how hostile you are to anything that challenges your worship of the right wing.

Debunk: Women’s suicide rates are indeed increasing, nearly matching the alarming trends seen in men. Dismissing this fact ignores a critical issue that affects both genders.

Men commit suidicide at four times the rate women do, that is not 'nearly matching' you shameless liar. But thank you for proving how much you don't give a shit about the truth or men. Here's hoping you wake the fuck up before the leopards find your face, and not during or after.

[–]ThePrinceJays -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]untamed-italian 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (4 children) | Copy Link

How is the right, who embrace masculinity,

The right doesn't embrace masculinity, they crucify it on a cross of self hatred. Everything they define masculinity by is actually men participating in their own destruction and enslavement, cracking the whip on their own back so that some callous-free hand need not bother.

We got to be real here,

You are welcome to join us in reality when you are ready.

we've seen some misandrist stuff from the right,

Name a single unvarnished benefit the right has ever provided to men.

We have to put our biases to the side

Waiting on you.

Maybe you've been hurt by the right personally, I understand, but they are nowhere near as bad as the left.

You speak of excising bias and respecting reality out one side of your mouth while you use the other to define other men's lives for them. Why should anyone trust you to discern who is or is not misandristic when you explicitly objectify men to sustain your partisan bias?

[–]ThePrinceJays -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago (3 children) | Copy Link

"The right doesn't embrace masculinity; they crucify it on a cross of self-hatred. Everything they define masculinity by is actually men participating in their own destruction and enslavement, cracking the whip on their own back so that some callous-free hand need not bother."

Fact: According to a 2018 survey by the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), 74% of right-wing men view traditional masculine traits, such as leadership, strength, and courage, as positive and essential to society.

Debunk: The right doesn’t crucify masculinity—they celebrate and promote it as essential to a well-functioning society. Far from self-hatred, this embrace of masculinity reflects a deep respect for the positive roles men play, rooted in leadership and strength. Your claim is not only incorrect but ignores the overwhelming support for masculine values among right-wing men.

"Name a single unvarnished benefit the right has ever provided to men."

Debunk:

Lower Taxes: Right-wing policies often focus on tax cuts, which leave men with more disposable income. (Tax Foundation, 2019)
Criminal Justice Reform: Right-wing efforts in states like Texas have led to reforms that reduce the disproportionate incarceration of men. (Texas Public Policy Foundation, 2019)
Second Amendment Rights: The right's defense of gun rights allows men to protect their families, which aligns with traditional masculine roles. (Pew Research Center, 2017)
Support for Veterans: The right typically champions policies that benefit male-dominated veteran populations, improving access to healthcare and job training. (Department of Veterans Affairs, 2020)
Promotion of Fatherhood: Right-wing organizations often support policies that encourage father involvement, which benefits men and children alike. (National Fatherhood Initiative, 2019)
Job Creation: Conservative economic policies prioritize job creation, benefiting men, who still make up a significant portion of the workforce. (U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, 2020)
School Choice: Right-wing policies on school choice give fathers more control over their children’s education, empowering them in their parental roles. (Heritage Foundation, 2020)
Pro-Entrepreneurship: Right-wing policies often reduce regulations, making it easier for men to start and grow businesses. (Small Business Administration, 2020)
Religion: The right’s support for religion often aligns with traditional masculine values and provides men with a framework for their role in the family. (Pew Research Center, 2016)
Marriage and Family Advocacy: Right-wing groups advocate for marriage as a stabilizing force in society, which benefits men and boys by creating stable family environments. (Institute for Family Studies, 2019)

The right has delivered numerous benefits to men, from economic policies to family advocacy, proving that they’re far from misandrist.

"Waiting on you"

None of anything you're saying aligns with reality.

"You speak of excising bias and respecting reality out one side of your mouth while you use the other to define other men's lives for them. Why should anyone trust you to discern who is or is not misandristic when you explicitly objectify men to sustain your partisan bias?"

Because my logic is based around reality, statistics, psychology, biology and real world studies, I'm not just making this stuff up. I have yet to hear you make 1 reasonable statement based on facts and statistics. Everyone else in this forum, OP, SomeSugondeseGuy, Kraskter have all made reasonable statements and points I've agreed with.

If you had one reasonable statement without extremist language, I might have agreed with you and conceded on a point, but I have yet to hear you speak reasonably.

[–]untamed-italian -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Fact: According to a 2018 survey by the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), 74% of right-wing men view traditional masculine traits, such as leadership, strength, and courage, as positive and essential to society.

I don't care what misandrists think.

Your claim is not only incorrect but ignores the overwhelming support for masculine values among right-wing men.

They have the value system of slaves, not men. Until they liberate themselves they are more of a threat to themselves and other men than an aid. Again, I have absolutely no fucks to give about their opinion. This is just asking cops to investigate themselves.

You conflate bias with fact too much.

Lower Taxes:

Lower taxes kill men.

Criminal Justice Reform: Right-wing efforts in states like Texas have led to reforms that reduce the disproportionate incarceration of men.

Hahahahahahaha, yeah by killing them! Amazing how someone this blind can read.

Second Amendment Rights:

Among the top 5 killers of men. More men in the US die from suicidal gun violence than gun violence, and the US has more deaths from guns than any other nation not currently being invaded. 6 out of every 10 deaths from guns in the US is a man killing himself.

Support for Veterans

Valorizing war is possibly the oldest and cruelest form of institutional misandry there is. The GOP also labels the totality of its own military industrial complex corruption as 'support for veterans' while cutting the VA's budget for complaining about the VA budget cuts the GOP already did!

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2023/05/02/house-republican-threatens-cut-va-budget-over-agencys-warnings-about-budget-cuts.html?amp=

Promotion of Fatherhood:

This is, like I have already explained, promotion of male suicide.

Job Creation

The GOP kills entire economies lol, partisan hack.

School Choice:

HAHAHAHAHAHHAA

Pro-Entrepreneurship

More trickle down bullshit.

Religion

Possibly THE single biggest manhating institution of all human history.

Marriage and Family Advocacy

Which is suicide advocacy, and you already cited 'promotion of fatherhood'.

Leaving aside how this all reeks of you copypasting chatgpt output trained on GOP boilerplate pablum, every single thing you cited is a lie. And not just any regular old lies, they are all lies crafted to enslave men to the profits of the already wealthy.

If you want to define your manhood around your enslavement to superstructural parasites, go waste your life on your own. No rational or self respecting man will follow you.

[–]ThePrinceJays -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]untamed-italian -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SomeSugondeseGuy 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ZealousidealArm160[S] -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]untamed-italian 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If Kamala Harris wins will the Republican Party hopefully return to normal or something?

Lol, why tf would it?

When Obama beat McCain and Romney did they get more normal or less?

The left isn't a great party, and the right wasn't before Trump became president, but once Trump became president the right became fucking terrible

Both were always terrible. Tf? Was the Iraq War and Katrina not bad enough? Was the dot.com bubble and deindustrialization not bad enough??

You need different perspectives and opinions and stuff, and uh, if we were to vote Republican that would bring down misandry, at the cost of more misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, and acephobia.

Lol, no it wouldn't reduce misandry. Conservatives are uniformly misandrist.

Like, I wish we could kind of like switch between Republican and Democrat parties again, because you need different perspectives and I don't want homophobia misogyny or transphobia but I don't want misandry either.

Neither party is offering anything but a perpetuation of all these injustices.

Will the Republican Party hopefully return to normal if trump loses?

Absolutely not. 'Normal' is an illusion in the first place, but neither party exists to represent the public's interests.

[–]JustHereForGiner79 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Son_of_Sophroniscus -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ZealousidealArm160[S] -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	If Kamala Harris wins will the Republican Party hopefully return to normal or something?
Author	ZealousidealArm160
Upvotes	0
Comments	30
Date	August 31, 2024 6:50 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/EverydayMisandry
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/everydaymisandry/comments/1f5uihr/if_kamala_harris_wins_will_the_republican_party/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/EverydayMisandry/if-kamala-harris-wins-will-the-republican-party.1528985 https://theredarchive.com/post/1528985

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