How is this harassment?

fuxorfly · 2014-10-31T20:17:45+00:00

When you've never experienced actual harassment, someone staring at you is about the worst thing you can imagine. IE, if you think those normal human behaviours are harassment, you are Pretty Damn Privileged <sup>tm</sup> .

3215 · 2014-11-01T05:55:31+00:00

So many people have no idea what does and does not constitute harassment.

That is because the definition varies from cultures and time periods and is one of the most difficult to communicate actions when using legal language. The author needs to come down from their high horse and stop acting like harassment is obvious to define because the only thing that is obvious is the authors motive to over simplify this issue to condemn others

by the inherent nature of being a woman walking in the street, almost ALL uninvited attention from men is threatening.

"Inherent nature"? is this specific to the author or does the author speak for all women, do all women agree with this author that there is one "inherent" way to experience being a woman that this author is about to share?

Also, just using basic logic you can't preface a definitive statement with "almost" then capitalize every letter of all for emphasis, either it is all the time or their are exceptions. The Author needs to reread that line to understand the basic break in logic she made.

Women are victims of sexual violence EVERY SINGLE DAY, even in “liberal” cities like New York.

This statement is meaningless because of its scope, other statements that are similarly true are "Men are victims of sexual violence EVERY SINGLE DAY" "Children are victims of sexual violence EVERY SINGLE DAY" "Minorities..." "Domestic animals..." ETC

Women feel vulnerable on the street, period.

Another sweeping generalization that implies the author has surveyed every woman and they all feel comfortable with the author depicting them as scared/vulnerable/frightened

When a man interacts with her on any level she did not invite, it’s threatening, period.

This both over generalizes all men and breaks lines of equality by saying only women are threatened by this, if anyone interacts aggressively with anyone that didn't invite it, all those people can feel threatened. Faux-advocates like this rely on the myth that every man feels safe walking around every part of the city at every time of day to make their "women feel this way and men don't understand" argument.

You can’t change that just by saying someone is being “nice”. Just because a man isn’t overtly saying “I want to fuck you in the ass and cum in your hair, bitch,” it doesn’t nullify the threat a woman feels.

This is where the author loses all sanity for me. Yes, this is a serious argument that men have to understand that any vocal utterance made towards a woman can be interpreted as “I want to fuck you in the ass and cum in your hair, bitch,” by that woman and that she shouldn't be made to feel this is irrational.

And here’s the other thing: we can tell when someone is just being nice

This author must have super powers because it seems all of human history has given examples of how easy it is to misunderstand someone

all women (YES, ALL WOMEN) develop a sixth sense

I am now suspecting this is a parody, someone trying to make feminism look bad.

“harassing” wasn’t, in fact, “harassment”, all you’re saying is: “I don’t understand anything about the experience of living your life.”

Reality is if someone is telling you that your claim of harassment was not harassment, that person is most likely a police officer or judge and they are separating your bruised ego from actual victims who need real legal assistance.

If someone tells us our shoelace is undone, or a neighborhood local gives us a morning nod while they’re walking their dog, we can identify these things as inherently nice behaviors.

These are intentionally innocuous examples used to oversimplify the issue, the author chose not using flirting techniques that often wind up in the grey area for examples because that would complicate the issue to much and make people conflicted about a difficult issue.

No one is hysterically declaring ALL public interactions between men and women who don’t know each other to be harassment.

If you have been paying attention, this is a contradiction to an earlier statement the author made where the author claims women decide what is harassment during ALL public interactions, and can interpret any thing said to "I want to fuck you in the ass and cum in your hair, bitch,”

But the sad fact is that often they are.

Contributing to the victim world view for women, the author has just claimed that when a man and a women don't know each other "often" the interaction will be harassment. There is no source or statistic given.

And even when a man says something as simple as “Have a nice day,” we are able to read between the lines and know his motive, and 9 times out of 10, it’s not about well wishes.

The author gives no sources for the claim about motive, and dosn't instruct men in any way on how to make sure there morning greeting isn't perceived as a rape attempt.

between men and women on a more general social level since time began

This sentence has claimed what thousands of academics have debated for decades, and with no source.

an assault, in the eyes of the law, is anything that either causes grievous bodily harm or death, or something that creates a reasonable fear of grievous bodily harm or death. Street harassment that doesn’t involve touching is the latter

Street harassment is not a legally binding action classified or defined and therefore isn't assault, unlike the previous quotes, this is just a flat lie.

No one should have to walk down the street with that constant fear

Then why is the author convinced only women experience this at the hands of men

The following 6 things are often seen as innocuous

Again, no survey to confirm that these are generally held views. To be more clear most criminals are aware they are committing a crime when they do it, so claiming that perpetrators of these 6 conveniently listable actions is actually the author strengthening perpetrators by providing them with the excuse that they didn't know such and such was wrong.

Men often think they’re doing you a favor by telling a woman to “smile” in the street. But guess what? A woman can do anything she well pleases with her facial expression, whenever she wants.

These two sentences imply a connection but these two statements are non-related. While I personally think it is rude to say "smile" in this context the author is forming exaggerated inferences about how the speaker views the audience. While aggressive, "Smile" is being used as a suggestion and actually implies that the speaker understands that the audience controls their facial expression, so presenting this as an argument is only meant to demonize.

Just because a man uses God as a means to interact with a woman he doesn’t know on the street doesn’t make what he’s saying, or the way he’s saying it, acceptable.

Again the author is restricting a universal statement to a limited issue and even misappropriates a GIF of Marilyn Manson on the blog to do it. Simply put this same logic also applies to women.

God does not shield you from being a dirty, threatening prick.

This author claims to speak for God

And to the people for whom God is a special thing, using him as a weapon of harassment is doubly offensive.

This is again is an opinion on a blog meant to educate on facts, No judge would say that someone guilty of actual harassment will have to serve double jail time than normal because the victim was a Christian and he used the word God during the act.

Complimenting the physical appearance of a random woman on the street is not a compliment.

The issue that should be examined is intent, a compliment might change context given the situation, however it does not change in literal definition. A gun is still called a gun weather used at a shooting range, to stop crime, or to commit one. The author does not have the power to change the prescribed definition of a word for the convenience of their argument.

Women should be allowed the sanctity of their own self-image without the influence of the male gaze.

This statement is true first to both sexes, not just women exclusively, and second is only true in the privacy of the persons home. The public space allows anybody to look, record or photograph anyone (male and female) in the public space, No one, men, women, or this author, can decide who gets to look at who in a public space.

woman that she is being viewed constantly as an object

Again the author advocates for the victim world view. Where is any reliable source that this is how every man views every woman in the public space.

When a man stops what he’s doing, and follows a woman as she walks towards him, by him, and past him, it is creepy, and leaves a woman fearing for her bodily safety.

Again this is not sex specific, anyone stopping what they are doing to follow another person is cause for alarm. Again the author is trying to perpetuate a myth that men are never fearful in public and that women don't commit crimes.

You can look at a woman you’re attracted to in the street

This has been condemned by almost every other article on the same topic I have read. How is this decided.

Women, it seems, are expected to receive engagement from strangers without question

The opposite is encouraged in everyone since birth as basic safety in primary education.

A woman does not have the obligation to acknowledge anyone they don’t want to acknowledge

Police officers are one example of this not being true at a legal level. Also this statement is again for both genders and the author has chosen to limit it to women to perpetuate a victim world view about men.

Jack92783 · 2014-10-31T21:07:45+00:00

Well, speaking as a fat, tall, socially awkward male with a high voice and a lisssssp, I got the message loud and clear.

Yodude1 · 2014-10-31T21:27:38+00:00

My mom complements me every day, therefore, she is abusive.

My friends tell me to smile when I'm sad. Therefore, they should be suspended.

My dad asks me to tell him whats wrong even though I'm afraid to tell him. Therefore, he is abusive.

Seems legit.

Kestyr · 2014-11-01T10:57:28+00:00

If you didn't think you had a problem before, we want you to think you have one now. Be judgmental whenever you sneeze, whenever you're out, live in fear. 1 in 4 women get raped, dont cha know? The only way to go through with 'progress' is to convince people that progress hasn't happened and that were in a dark age when it comes to equality.

eletheros · 2014-11-01T01:11:09+00:00

None of those six bulleted items are harassment, in a criminal or civil law usage in the US or in a common definition English language usage.

Title	How is this harassment?
Author	Azrael_Manatheren
Upvotes	7
Comments	13
Date	October 31, 2014 8:12 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/2kx1pv/how-is-this-harassment/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/how-is-this-harassment.1622459 https://theredarchive.com/post/1622459

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