Beware, PUA has lots of toxic blue pill beliefs.

exit_sandman · 2014-07-06T07:47:13+00:00

Well, without a doubt PUA does spread some patent falsehoods, but I wouldn't hold it against them because even though they might be wrong, they're really important to shatter what they call "limiting beliefs", especially in those who are new to the game.

When they say "looks don't really matter for your game" (yes they do) or "women have the same sex drive as men" (no they don't) it might be what they experience, though in reality it's nonsense. Nevertheless internalizing these beliefs can do wonders to an insecure guy who thinks he's too ugly (when actually, he's average) to pull chicks and who is utterly sure that approaching a girl in a sexual, non-comfort-zone-respecting manner will kill his chances with her; but suddenly changes his entire approach to flirting in general because he realizes that he actually can get & bed hot girls.

When they say "double standards are ridiculous, don't judge women for being slutty" and "jealousy is a sign of weakness" it's nonsense as well, because both double standards and jealousy exist for reasons rooted in evolution. Nevertheless letting go of them can again do wonders for you because it makes you more comfortable and less insecure (and therefore less judgemental and less hostile) with women of lesser moral fiber, who are coincidentally the most likely to fuck you on the first or second date.

PUA may be sexist, but it's also philogynic in a twisted way, and ultimately, that's positive for one's game.

DoxasticPoo · 2014-07-06T07:12:13+00:00

Yeah.... sometimes I read Mark Manson's blog and think, "Man.... is this guy the biggest White Knight PUA ever?"

Other times I think he's just really good at walking a fine line.

YouDislikeMyOpinion · 2014-07-06T05:58:48+00:00

I totally didn't expect this one:

http://imgur.com/4ElMXyo

http://imgur.com/lEtvQEQ

variableLt · 2014-07-06T14:26:23+00:00

tl;dr those that don't acknowledge the game and trp principles, eventually get steam-rolled by those who do

Since it is Sunday, I took my time to go through the whole thread linked in OP. Yes, looks do matter, but that what has been shown there doesn't prove a thing.

I always thought of myself to be about 6/10, but realistically I am 4/10 or 5/10. Two features that I have on my side are height (6'4") and IQ. Other than that, most of my life I was out of shape, not so well dressed and all things that should be avoided. Since finding trp, I am on the right path and all this should be a thing of past. Work in progress.

I didn't bang 100 chicks, I am quite far from that, but I got my mff threesome and every other girl that I bang, allows me to anally ravage her. None of the girls are lower than 4, had a share of 7s and 8s. On the other hand, there were some periods of incel where I couldn't K-close even if my life depended on it.

The only difference between dry and successful periods was on how many trp principles did I put in action. If I had status and game and held my frame - I was bathing in pussy. If not - incel. Lately I manage to get involved with taken women whose men are realistically more attractive physically then me, but it doesn't matter - if I manage to get into her head and hold my frame, she will be fucking me. When I am at the peak of my capabilities, I can get away with anything. I usually kiss women without saying a word, and recently one was a lucky enough to receive: "You surely like anal." line. It was a successful opening.

As guys already noticed, Tinder is looks focused app. Guys like me are losing time there. What I don't understand is why people get bitter over that fact like some kind of low life bitches? It is analogous to crying over lost hockey match, while you are good at tennis. Seduction is a sales process, not every salesman gets an opportunity to sell BMWs, some of us won KIA dealership and it's up to you to get most of it. The most important thing to realize here, that there are many salesmen like you so you have to do your best to stand out between your peers before you advance to the next level. If you throw the towel now - more pussy for me, thank you.

Women fantasize like we do and if Charlize Theron found us on Tinder, most of us would revert to BP ways in a second. It is perfectly normal for this to happen. However, underwear models and Bar Refaeli's are rare in this world, so we have to be satisfied with each other.

So bros, don't be discouraged: live TRP principles and good things will come. Maybe you will even win a 9er and lose her to some CK model, but shit happens. Just next her and move on to the next one until you find what you are looking for.

Occams_Shiv · 2014-07-06T09:18:46+00:00

Of course looks matter, but for a different reason. Women do not value men for the same things we value women for. Assuming they do is projection. Similar to women thinking they will be attractive because they have a powerful high paying job. I don't think there are any PUAs saying that you shouldn't improve your looks as much as possible, but women are attracted to status and authority far more than looks.

It may be though that social media is de-emphasizing the traditional social cues that were most important for attracting women.

Here's a simple question: If physical looks are of primary importance, why does mens SMV continue to grow until late 30s, even though their physical attractiveness probably peaks at t about 25?

This question is not solely rhetorical. I would love to hear others thoughts on this.

subcover · 2014-07-07T02:12:50+00:00

On Tinder, where looks is all there are, of course looks matter, and everyone acknowledges they are there for ONS. Duh.

It's actually a toxic blue pill belief that looks matter very much for men.

Why is this sub so full of disinformation the past few weeks? Someone ismounting a major campaign to screw it up and confuse everyone.

aOs_Student · 2014-07-06T07:32:06+00:00

You really ought to combine a book or two with your own experimentation for the best results game-wise. Of course the PUA industry is full of snake oil salesmen trying to get you to buy their bootcamps and shit, obviously they will emphasize that the shit they sell is the best thing that you can get to increase your success.

Krauser is a relatively honest dude as far as PUA advice goes. Mark Manson's models is decent practical stuff too. You don't need to go super technical about these things though, at the end of the day all the game guides use mega large numbers of approaches and iterations of experience to reach success.

2014-07-06T03:24:57+00:00

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SouthwellR · 2014-07-06T05:11:17+00:00

Absolutely. I hate when they say shit like looks don't matter. It's like what the actual fuck? Of course they do. It just comes across like a get rich quick scheme, and the whole even you can be rich lines they give. It's like even you can get laid. Now I'll admit that a below average dude that hits on tons of women will probably get more women than the average dude that doesn't hit on any women. Sure. But if that average guy did, he would be doing way better than the ugly one.

drallcom3 · 2014-07-06T12:02:34+00:00

PUAs will often say "looks do not matter" this is because they want to over emphaize the role that PUA methods have in attracting women.

PUA is totally commercialized and want to sell their products to as many people as possible. Of course you say that looks don't matter, because only the best looking 20% gets the pussy and your customers are at the bottom of the remaining 80%. The best PUA method would be "lift, diet, groom, socialize for 2 years", but that's work and doesn't provide instant results.

cherrypoptart27 · 2014-07-06T13:25:40+00:00

But if you pay attention most in the PUA community explain that if you're better looking you will have better results but that since you can't control that, you might as well proceed as if looks don't matter in your pursuit of improving your game.

Tinder is based solely on looks. I wouldn't consider it true game because there's no way for a woman to pick up on non verbal cues that build attraction (and it also limits the kind of openers you can use).

Too many guys use Tinder as a crutch (myself included) but if you wanna be a true player it happens out there in the real world. This is where the playing field is more even.

Petrarch1603 · 2014-07-06T14:59:18+00:00

The PUA industry is mostly full of hucksters trying to make a quick buck off of lonely, desperate men.

Its mostly sales 101 stuff. There's a need, so these 'gurus' create the solution. THere is a huge market of AFCs that will do anything if they think it will help them get laid.

PlusGoody · 2014-07-06T18:40:13+00:00

Looks do matter but they aren't necessary, because there are vastly more high quality women than there are high status men. A fat dude without a hot chick either doesn't have status or can't be bothered to use it.

football1010 · 2014-07-06T16:32:11+00:00

Am I the only one who thinks that bodybuilding tinder model is an average looking guy at best? I don't understand how he is getting such results, unless he is spamming a very large group of women.

Los_olvidados · 2014-07-07T01:01:19+00:00

Looks matter but not as much as we thing. I know and you probably know too, guys that are ugly as a sin that get pussy and good quality pussy.

Let me give you an example here; lets look a black guys, yeah, most of them are ugly as a sin, yes or no? Most of them are also rip as fuck, and give no shits about what people think of them, they get pussy.

Looks matter, but frame+personality+passions MATTER MORE

reddiforlove · 2014-07-07T03:12:29+00:00

Okay, obviously a lot of PUAs are going to exaggerate the extent to which looks are unimportant to women because they are trying to make a living and a large portion of their potential customer base will never be able to look like male models no matter how much they work out.

However, that belief is not as toxic as it seems, there is truth in that saying because looks are only important to women in that they subconsciously convey a man's money/power/status. Looks truly do not matter, if and only if you have a sufficient amount of those things.

The proof of this is obvious when you look at the extent to which guys like Hugh Hefner, Donald Trump, Rush Limbaugh, and Simon Cowell have an endless parade of model caliber girlfriends/wives. I mean, one of the reasons women hate the red pill so much is because the truth makes them all look like whores.

cooltrip · 2014-07-06T11:15:57+00:00

To women, looks is the only thing that matters.

This is something betas/PUAs are not getting:

betas/PUAS think that the main question is just whether to get sex or not.

The Red Pill goes beyond: getting sex is not enough. The main and most important question is whether to get sex as an Alpha (chooser), or get it as a beta (beggar). Getting sex as a beggar ("gamer", mere post-carousel provider, etc) is not a victory to The Red Pill; it is a failure.

Imagine an obese ugly man who is so skilled at manipulation, that he gets sex with some woman, after a lot of manipulation. This is not a victory to TRP.

Now imagine an extremely fit and handsome man who runs NO-GAME or sexual strategy at all; however, without any effort by him or without him doing any special thing, one day three of her many female friends propose a foursome to him. This is WIN to TRP. This is the sort of "victory" any redpiller would choose, over the obese ugly man's one.

Conclusion? Don't spend your efforts in developing a skilled game; spend your efforts in developing physical fitness and handsomeness, and don't develop game as well, because getting sex with girls just for your physical qualifiedness is way hotter and better than getting sex for your body plus your game; and because, if you become physically hot but you still don't get sex on that sole basis of your handsomeness, then, at least, you won't need to blame it on yourself, because you did all you had to do, and lack of handsomeness from you won't be the reason (after all, you could be hansome, perform game as well, and still don't get sex either, since the final female decision is needed too; if you become handsome and play game but still you don't get sex, then you'll remain in the very same situation: you didn't get sex, but you won't have to blame it on yourself, since you did all you had to do. So, the thing is that achieving sex by only being handsome without playing any game, is a greater victory than achieving sex by being handsome plus playing game).

PaulRivers10 · 2014-07-06T19:00:03+00:00

PUAs will often say "looks do not matter" this is because they want to over emphaize the role that PUA methods have in attracting women. ... Guy puts male model on tinder

Groan.

First, you're full of it that PUA's say "looks do not matter". Non of the well known PUA's say that.

What they say is that it's your alpha characteristics and social status that matter more than your looks. Then they saying that it's important to get in shape and dress well - because looks matter, just not as much as your alpha characteristics and social status.

Second, girls responding only Tinder are only looking for looks - duuuuh. It's Tinder. Girls see online dating as a "safe" way to be flirty and slutty - without it ever going anywhere. If you've ever been a good looking guy and tried the personals you know - most girls will never actually meet you in person. From just stopping talking to you to suddenly cancelling at the last second, they won't show up. The few that will show up are usually emotional trainwrecks.

The only people I've heard claiming that pua says "looking don't matter at all" are people trying to create a strawman so they can argue with it. Looks do matter, but not as much as alpha characteristics and social status.

Title	Beware, PUA has lots of toxic blue pill beliefs.
Author	SouthwellR
Upvotes	41
Comments	60
Date	July 6, 2014 2:09 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/29xucj/beware_pua_has_lots_of_toxic_blue_pill_beliefs/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/beware-pua-has-lots-of-toxic-blue-pill-beliefs.17574 https://theredarchive.com/post/17574

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