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What are your thoughts on this, "I wish I hadn't opted out" article?

OddQuestionGirl

December 18, 2013
3 upvotes
/r/RedPillWomen
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Post Information
Title What are your thoughts on this, "I wish I hadn't opted out" article?
Author

OddQuestionGirl

Upvotes 3
Comments 32
Date December 18, 2013 11:06 PM UTC
(12 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/1t7coi/what_are_your_thoughts_on_this_i_wish_i_hadnt/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/what-are-your-thoughts-on-this-i-wish-i-hadnt.197234
https://theredarchive.com/post/197234
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Comments

[–]FleetingWishEndorsed Contributor12 points13 points14 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Instead of being an article on the "price of motherhood" think of it instead as "the price of choosing a profession", after all it's an article of a mother regretting her choice of motherhood as a profession. Like any other profession, you have a chance of losing your job by quitting, by being fired, or downsized. Of course if you leave one profession for another you run the risk of not being able to keep up with your peers and if you return later.

This is a tale of a woman who made bad choices. She chose the wrong guy to marry, and either divorced him or he divorced her. She put all her stock investments in the hope that that would work out, and when it didn't, she lost it all (well not all, the article conveniently forgets to mention how she got a severance pay of child support payments until her kids reach adulthood). Then her fall back plan goes bust as well, because she chose a poor career. Maybe she missed the news, but columnists are not a career heavily in demand. And now she's suffering the consequences of that choice. If she had picked to say... Be an engineer, or a nurse, or several other careers, she would be having no trouble right now.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

theres no mention of why she got divorced. sucks to be her

[–]TempestTcup4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

She was a newspaper reporter, and she blames being out of the workforce to be a SAHM for her inability to get a job. There are very few newspapers any more and the ones that still exist run mainly local stories or AP stories. It is one of the most difficult jobs to get nowadays. Her ex-husband is incredibly lucky to still have his job.

[–]MrsStrom2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Writing shit like this makes me think she wouldn't have hacked it as a in-print newspaper reporter anyways. Column space is expensive and writing drivel will get you fired or plain not hired in the first place. Sounds like her lack of employment is her fault.

[–]TempestTcup3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh, but she is perfect and wonderful; nothing can ever be her fault! /sarc

[–]SirNemesis4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

This is an example of a collective action problem. If there weren't so many female workers flooding the job market, and instead most females opted-out, then the job market wouldn't be so cutthroat, and women with stay-at-home stints would still be able to find reasonable employment. As would men who have been unemployed for a while, don't have experience, have a drug conviction, some other thing that makes them unemployable.

Sadly though, the dual income trap is resulting in more and more women working, which in turn excacerbates the problem. It's a vicious cycle. Of course, there are other factors at play, such as immigration and the destruction of manufacturing. However, women entering the workforce en-masse is a major factor in this.

While there is a good chance that the author did a frivolous divorce, I don't want to jump to that conclusion. It's possible for women to do everything right and still get divorced, and they should have options after that to support themselves. Just as men should not have to be taken to the cleaners in divorce court if they get frivorced. This is a good argument for getting rid of no-fault divorce (or rather linking fault with payments). And better disability insurance for in case the working spouse becomes unable to work.

[–]SirNemesis5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

One more good comment:

TrekCycyling WEDNESDAY, JAN 5, 2011 07:24 PM PST Why some of us are less than sympathetic...

This is an awful economy. We're all in the same boat. I feel bad for the writer, objectively. However, it's hard for me to read pieces like this and not compare it to my situation. I worked 40 hours a week to put myself through college. When I graduated I literally started my first job the Monday after graduation. I started out as a self-taught computer programmer and worked often 60 hour weeks and continued to hone my craft until I became a professional software developer.

Two years ago a car T-boned me and basically turned my life upside down. I gained weight, got depressed and was in physical therapy for months. I eventually lost my job and was unemployed for a year.

Now, I don't write this to compare war stories. I write this to say that the writer isn't alone. Some of us are in bad situations as well. Others are in far worse situations. This is a terrible economy with heartless companies running the lives of individuals. Yet stories like mine won't make the front page of Salon. I'm not a woman. And I'm not a freelance writer. I spent the last year retooling my skills and eventually found a job. Knock on wood that job sticks around long enough for me to get completely back on my feet.

We all have it bad, statistically. This economy is hurting everyone. That's why the self-indulgent writing is so painful. I think about all that I've been through. The pain (physically and emotionally). The humiliation of thinking you may never find work again even though you did everything right. Only to come home, open Salon and read about some navel gazing freelance writer? I'm sorry but it's hard to work up much sympathy from where I sit. I have a heart, but I also have perspective.

Like I said, Salon Editors. Hire some writers, some actual journalists and hit pavement. Start chronicling what's happening in this country instead of giving freelance writers a platform on which to test out article ideas while the rest of us work hard to stay above water.

[–]SirNemesis0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Also, this comment from the article echoes how the current economy incentivizes certain choices. Perhaps women working is sort of like men going on a marriage strike. Ideally, it wouldn't be the optimal thing, but given the current situation, it might be necessary.

I made the same choice. I had some physical issues, my husband was a professor with long breaks from work, we moved several times.... It was easier all around for me to stay home with the kids. And I did worry about that long-term financial security. But every time I brought up my concern that when we married we both had the same earning potential, and now I didn't, well, he reassured me that I didn't need to worry, that no matter what, he'd see that I was taken care of.

And when he decided after 19 years that he didn't want to be married any more, he really did want to be fair--but there wasn't enough money to support his new family and his old one. I was really lucky. I did get enough spousal maintenance to go back to school, get an advanced degree in a hot field, and get a good job. But that was 25 years ago. Would it be the same today--when jobs are scarce? Would employers make the same allowances for all those years when I was out of the job market? Not likely. And I never could hit the same salary levels as if I had those extra 20 years of experience and raises or put away as much in pension plans and 401K's.

So I agree with the writer. Treasure the time with your children, but keep your job.

[–]Pink_acetaminophen8 points9 points10 points 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

That's why people shouldn't divorce.

[–]alphabetmod12 points13 points14 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, notice how there was no mention of why she got divorced. I can't even tell what the article's endpoint is… is she complaining about how she can't have it all? Is she second guessing whether or not she should have had kids?… It's just a bunch of rambling.

[–]enticingasthatmaybe7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

She thought the grass was greener and bailed.

[–]LadyLumen2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

My feelings exactly.

[–][deleted] 7 points7 points7 points 12 years ago | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 5 points5 points5 points 12 years ago | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]enticingasthatmaybe4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

When that is the norm, it will be the default assumption. And, the author's lack of reasoning for the divorce is ample justification to assume she bailed after she beta'ed her husband, at least for me.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

if she doesnt mention the divorce was the mans fault then it was her fault. there is no doubt

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

or maybe she just doesn't see why they divorced as relevant to what was written?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, right sure.

[–]LadyLumen2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I can't take this article that seriously since the author doesn't explain why the divorce happened or what her husband was like. Was she contributing to the marriage in any way? It usually takes two to Tango.

Becoming a "Stay at Home" mom means that your job is to take care of your children and please your husband. Perhaps she wasn't taking all the right steps to please her husband and keep him interested.

This is like if she got a job at a News Paper and then stopped trying to impress her co-workers.

With that said, I think it is good for a woman to have a backup plan in case things go wrong with her marriage. Having a degree or some kind of useful skill is important. I also think it's more balanced if a mom volunteers or works part time - rather than just doing the whole stay at home thing.

The author also doesn't mention if she's getting any kind of alimony. Seeing that she was a Stay At Home Mom for several years - she probably is. Living on alimony isn't luxurious, but it does give her the resources to pay the basic bills and perhaps even send herself to school to get a useful skill like nursing.

[–]MrsStrom5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

First thought- gee I wonder why you got divorced? Nagging shrews often get divorced because they think the grass is greener.

Cheese and rice. I can't read anymore. What a twat. She made a series of very poor decisions and now she's whinging about how its all someone else's fault. Her hamster must be a cardio bunny for all the wheel spinning.

I am a stay-at-home mom and housewife. Have been for many years. When times were lean, I'd get a job to supplement my husband's earnings and still do all the housework. It sucked. We both agreed that me staying home was the best for everyone. He hated having late/half-assed dinners and a worn out wife. And frankly, I hated working at a job that took my away from my husband and children.

The author sounds like a feminist that's pissed that she can't have her cake and eat it too. Career or family- one WILL suffer for the other. There simply aren't enough hours in the day to do both optimally. It really is that simple.

[–]Bad_day_today1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

That's one of the reasons I would never even consider being a stay-at-home mom. I saw this happen to my mother when she and my Dad divorced after 25 years of marriage. In my parents' case, he cheated on her, so it wasn't that she instigated a divorce for no reason. But, she ended up in a much worse position for supporting him in his career and raising children while he was at work.

I was in college when it happened, but my lesson was: no matter how much you love and trust someone, you still have to think about all the possibilities. You can't make assumptions about how other people will act in the future. Make sure your own future is your priority.

[–]MrsStrom4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Most men don't cheat for no reason. In most instances, its because she turned him out of the bedroom.

[–]Bad_day_today4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

You can keep that line of thought going backwards all day. Maybe she turned him out of the bedroom because he was a bad husband. The point is that you can't control what other people in your life do, but you can control your reaction. Nothing excuses cheating. When you're unhappy in a marriage, you either fix it or leave. He tried to get away with doing neither and screwed up several lives in the process.

[–]MrsStrom1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

If he had just left, you'd still have divorced parents. Your life would still be screwed up.

And if you're honest with yourself, it was probably mostly your mom's fault. Men are pretty easy to get along with if you can get over your pride.

*ninja edit: Cause seriously. Make a guy a sandwich and play with his weiner, you'll be aces in his book every time.

[–]Bad_day_today3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Hahahaha. TRP isn't about worshipping men and pretending they do no wrong. We all know that isn't true. It's about understanding what you're attracted to and the dynamic that makes you happy. It's laughable to pretend to know what went wrong in a decades old relationship you've heard 3 sentences about. But, the point is that women shouldn't base their lives on short-term situations (like having young kids who aren't in school) without a really good backup plan.

[–]MrsStrom3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

  1. This isn't TRP, its RPW. And its about recognizing our own faults and learning to deal with them.

  2. Generally speaking, women beta-ize their men and then bitch and piss and moan that their man isn't "a real man" anymore. They beat their man down and he keeps doing what he's told is "right". Too bad that what is "right" is what men-hating feminists has told them is "right" and it just kills the attraction even more.

Once you recognize that a little kindness goes a long ways with men, and that you don't have to be a ball busting bitch to get what you want, you'll be a lot happier.

[–]Bad_day_today4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not sure where the idea that I'm unhappy came from. I have a great marriage, two awesome kids and a pretty nice life all around.

We just disagree about what RPW is about. To me, RPW is about the same thing TRP is. It's just women understanding themselves the same way the TRP guys are. We obviously have different things to understand about what we're attracted to and how we handle things, but I certainly wouldn't call our traits faults. They aren't bad or inferior, they just are. Being self aware, striving to be a good person, and helping your SO be the best person he can be are the keys to a happy relationship, in my opinion.

I agree that "beta" tendencies are unattractive and I think there are ways we can encourage men to stay away from them. I think you and I just disagree on some of those techniques. Kindness is great, subservience is weird. But, I don't have a problem with everyone finding happiness in different ways, even some that I think are weird.

Now matter how you implement your beliefs, it's the philosophy that is what we have in common here. We've fallen in love with strong, successful men and want to maintain our attractiveness so we can be happy together long-term.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

This line of thinking really doesn't follow RPW logic. If all you're doing throughout your entire relationship is looking out for #1 your relationship will be doomed.

How would you feel if your SO always talked about how they have to put up safety nets because they don't trust you will always be there for them? or that you will cheat, leave, get sick, die and so on etc. How is that conducive to a healthy relationship when there's such a huge lack of trust?

I feel sad for you having gone through your parent's divorce, this certainly colors the way you will look at relationships but to bring this experience into your own relationship could be detrimental. Will you always think that your SO is going to do what your dad did? That's not fair to your SO.

[–]Bad_day_today3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Actually I don't think my SO is anything like my Dad. Not at all. We trust each other as much as people can. But, I would still never be so short-sighted to assume that the way things are now is the way they will always be. That's just irresponsible. Planning for the future isn't RP or not RP, it's just smart.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Out of curiosity what plans have you put in place?

[–]Bad_day_today1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Mostly, it's financial stability. I have a job that pays well and if I ever needed to, I could support myself and my children with my paycheck alone (it wouldn't be easy, but I could). Besides that, I have my own retirement savings and we both have good life insurance plans. It's not something we think about every day or anything, but I feel more secure knowing that if something unexpected happened, my family would probably be ok.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So then would it be correct to assume that your mom had no education or job skills going into her marriage and this is what you wanted to avoid, not necessarily just the stay at home mom part? It just seemed as though you were intimating that it is foolish or unwise to pursue being a stay at home mom.

The safety net you have in place isn't anything unusual at all, I thought perhaps you had a secret cash fund built up for that 'just in case scenario' or something to that effect. It just sounds like you've been quite honest with your SO and that you're both on the same page; your initial post sounded a bit as though you would go behind your SO's back to do whatever it took to protect yourself which again is not RPW at all.

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