When to have a difficult conversation?

FrozenSoil · 2015-06-21T20:37:18+00:00

I think it depends on what sort of goals and lifestyle your seeing. Your post is a bit too vague. Is it an open relationship, career or location change. Depending on the issues your thinking may change the advice you receive.

[deleted] · 2015-06-21T21:40:11+00:00

The best time to have that conversation is never.

Your wife doesn't have any long term goals. If she does, it's only due to your complete lack of leadership.

redpill-hardmode · 2015-06-21T22:05:07+00:00

I don't think STFU is a good hard and fast rule or even in general.

You should have a conversation with your wife when it is necessary to meet an end goal that requires her to do something.

When its not you should talk through your actions.

For example, in your case, do you need her to do something? This might be changing a behavior or doing something to help.

Otherwise talking without action is probably just going to come off very beta.

theultmatecad · 2015-06-22T02:30:55+00:00

Any reason you cant just spit out what the fuck you mean when you are posting anonymously on the web?

SorcererKing · 2015-06-21T21:15:57+00:00

On the other hand, I don’t want to burn another year making the improvements and changes I need to, only to find out she doesn’t have the same long term vision.

Here is your mistake. Self-improvement is not for the sake of your relationship, not for the sake of your wife, not for the sake of any kids. It's for YOU (hence the SELF in self-improvement). Self-improvement is never a waste; you either come out a better man with a better marriage or you come out a better man ready for something else. Either way, you win.

So shut your mouth and go lift.

Countpudyoola · 2015-06-22T13:58:35+00:00

Here some good rules of thumb I sink back on when it comes to talking about anything:

Some examples of when not to "talk"

You're thinking out loud (women do this, not men in general and it's not seen as a sign of a good leader)
You're seeking approval
You're trying to avoid disapproval
You feel like you're somehow "prepping" her for something so that the outcome will be more in your favor.
A conversation that could easily get hijacked by her feelings
You want to explain how this is the new you and it's really going to stick this time
Honey, I found this great set of tools called MRP, let me explain it to you and why you don't even realize how great it is.
You're thinking a conversation will take about 5-10 minutes because you have something to do in 15.
Talking about feelz. The relationship. Etc. Where it's headed. How you want her to love you. How you deserve <insert anything>, respect, air, more sex, more food whatever...

Examples of when to "talk"

You have specific plans to put on the calendar.
You're out of milk and she's going to the grocery store and you notice it isn't on the list.
To tell her not to cook dinner because you're taking her out.
You've been shot in the leg and need her to grab a bottle of Jack, a pair of pliers and a curling iron.

battery_licker · 2015-06-21T20:45:40+00:00

Your post is quite vague, so the advice I give you might not be applicable to your actual situation.

As far as goals, you generally want to get those out in the open. If you're expecting her to support your goals but she isn't sure what those goals are, you have a classic Covert Contract.

That being said, you're new to all this and generally you don't want to have a "Now you listen here, this is the way it's gonna be!" conversation. You want to follow the timeline in the classic MRP post 12 Stages of Dread.

If you give us some more information we can probably give you advice more suited to your situation.

RPAlternate42 · 2015-06-21T21:34:23+00:00

I’m seeing that my long term goals and my wife’s may not be aligned.

In what way? Be specific.

it seems short-sighted to just split and go my own way.

Wanting to up and leave after swallowing the pill is an anger reaction and we all went through it. I still always see that as a door that's not locked in my room of choices.

But these newfound RP ideas suggest that might not be the best move.

We usually advocate moving slowly and organically.

I’d like to do is talk with her about the direction I’m taking my life now... So the question is, how do you know if or when to initiate that kind of conversation?

This depends on your frame and how onboard she is with the new you as you are. You are making changes to your life that are jarring for her; scary to her. She feels the bite of knowing you are not "locked" to her, that you are capable of living without her, and that you may be willing to exercise that freedom. Introducing new (to her) life goals may send her into a fear and distance spiral. If she thinks you are making too many changes too fast, she may decide to emotionally disconnect and not care what you do any more.

In short, she may feel that her life goals don't mesh with yours and decide to cut her losses from a survival/panic head-space.

From my perspective, it seems that you have wanted to tell her these things for a long time and RP has armed you with the confidence to do so. This is great, but it also feels like you maybe RP has caused a little anger from which to platform your long-held-in plans.

You even said it here:

And what, other than contacting a lawyer, should I do to prepare?

You already seem to know that divorce is imminent from this talk or you want a divorce to happen from this talk.

If the news is so drastic... so dire... so shocking, that this is the outcome you are planning for, then you are probably not ready to have the talk and preserve your marriage.

Your job,. right now is to prioritize your needs: Marriage, or news of these goals?

My recommendation: continue your MAP; lift, learn, be a leader, be the captain. Do not tell her of your goals... simply work towards them. She will be on board or not be on board.

turbosympathique · 2015-06-22T15:14:25+00:00

Forget about the nobody talk about fight club type of reference. Some men here are way to insecure and have not the fortitude of character (Frame) to talk about this openly. Some other men here can and do talk about it and it is way easier to bring your "first officer on-board, about changing the power dynamic in your marriage this way.

So the question is, how do you know if or when to initiate that kind of conversation?

First thing first have her read something like this then have a good discussion about it. You can then see by her reaction how you could get to the subject...... If you have been doing your part you should already seen some positive result for you AND for her. Since this change in perspective is "positive" it is a lot easier to talk about it and to lay out your expectation of her and what are your responsibility.

Anyway, whatever you say own it!

KyfhoMyoba · 2015-06-23T02:09:44+00:00

I don’t want to burn another year making the improvements and changes I need to, only to find out she doesn’t have the same long term vision.

A woman will take the shape of her container.

Maintain frame. You are a/the rock.

how do you know if or when to initiate that kind of conversation?

Women talk, men do. Demonstrate, don't explicate. (IOW, if she doesn't get on board ... Dread. Game.)

sealteamaus · 2015-06-23T10:12:58+00:00

Dude just go your way don't give her something to think about or she will find fault with it. Just go do your thing. If you're strong enough she will follow without question. If you're weak she's already left you.

Title	When to have a difficult conversation?
Author	ManWithTheTwistedLip
Upvotes	9
Comments	12
Date	June 21, 2015 8:26 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MarriedRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/3amykz/when_to_have_a_difficult_conversation/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MarriedRedPill/when-to-have-a-difficult-conversation.201648 https://theredarchive.com/post/201648

Comments

Some examples of when not to "talk"

Examples of when to "talk"