Covert Contracts according to Marcus Aurelius

wekacuck · 2018-06-13T14:12:16+00:00

It's petty but this reminds me of why I prefer the Hays "Meditations: A New Translation".

6.

Some people, when they do someone a favor, are always looking for a chance to call it in. And some aren’t, but they’re still aware of it—still regard it as a debt. But others don’t even do that. They’re like a vine that produces grapes without looking for anything in return.

A horse at the end of the race . . .

A dog when the hunt is over . . .

A bee with its honey stored . . .

And a human being after helping others.

They don’t make a fuss about it. They just go on to something else, as the vine looks forward to bearing fruit again in season.

We should be like that. Acting almost unconsciously.

—Yes. Except conscious of it. Because it’s characteristic of social beings that they see themselves as acting socially. And expect their neighbors to see it too!

That’s true. But you’re misunderstanding me. You’ll wind up like the people I mentioned before, misled by plausible reasoning. But if you make an effort to understand what I’m saying, then you won’t need to worry about neglecting your social duty.

ReddJive · 2018-06-13T13:14:23+00:00

Summary....because Marucs rambles a bit.

Marcus talks about three kinds of people who do kind things for others: 1) those who think about what's now owed to them; 2) those who think that the helped person now in their debt; 3) those who completely forget that they've done a good deed.
Marcus compares #3 to a grape vine: it produces good fruit, and that is both its purpose and its reward.
Marcus lists creatures that likewise fulfill their purpose without expecting reward: bees, racehorses, hunting dogs. He thinks that he should be just like those critters. There's one objection that Marcus can imagine. Shouldn't we make people aware of their social duties by calling attention to our own good deeds?
Marcus responds by saying that this kind of logic belongs to the guys in categories 1 and 2—they only want a reasonable excuse to show off or benefit.
Marcus gives an example of the perfect prayer, which is simple and open-hearted.

We need to be careful. It's important to remember that the tools that are often discussed to help generate a Red Pill mindset have some areas that are not in line with Red Pill. I've argued that the right mix of Zen and Stoicism is what a man needs to cultivate.

Stoicism as a philosophy is one of these. true Stoicims has three pillars of thought. Two of them are antiquated and hold little value unless one wants to go back to pagan worship and outdated scientific models (the stoics were wrong in this regard). What has stood the test of time is the Stoic ethical models, yet believe it or not most of the stoics advocated for social justice. Rather odd considering who they were and the lives they lead, but as a historian myself one can't judge a man of the past with modern sensibilities. Still that idea of social justice shows itself a bit in Book 5. So careful how far you take Marcus in this regard.

In this passage Marcus says we should get up each morning and do good work. Red Pill would replace that with accomplish your mission and goals. Marcus wants us to act naturally and contribute to society, unconcerned about the reproach of others. Yes yes but Red Pill says FUCK society. Marcus and RP agree that we don’t ask or expect payment or gratitude for doing good deeds. Instead, be satisfied with being like a vine that bears good fruit. Virtue is its own reward. Sounds an awful lot like Altruism to a degree....you have to dig deep to get any more out of it and it would be deviating some what from where he was really going.

According to Marcus, the problem with being disappointed or setting up an expectation of reward is parallel to the problem of being attached to rest more than to work, or vice versa, or to being overly concerned with eating and drinking to the exclusion of other activities.

Here is where Zen would take over and remind us, through Miyamoto Musashi's famous quote:

there is nothing outside of yourself that can ever enable you to get better, stronger, richer, quicker, or smarter. Everything is within. Everything exists.

Marcus is using this as a jump point as a way to explore the dynamic between a man's own interests that serve, and are served by, the common good. Fuck the common good. It's that altruism bullshit that perpetuates the blue pill model, but in Marcus' day a softening of a man's nature was likely needed. Marcus conjectures that animals and plants that are the perfection of nature because they follow the nature of their being. This is indeed Red Pill and GLO has often said part of the problem is that people, and men in particular are avoiding their true nature.

Marcus goes on! He holds to the idea that we should be amoral and evaluate their actions. He tells himself to observe the behavior of other people in the same light, that is, without judgment. He reminds himself that no one can be compelled to to ignore the nature of the universe and that all will end as it should. This is not in line as we know that feminism is indeed rewriting things and men have started to see through it. Only started. Yet the hard part for many to come to grips with is the concept of "it is what it is". This isn't exactly true. Stoics believed in free will and fate. What they saw as free will is our decisions being made and fate as...well...you would make the same decision because it is you. Why worry about what could have been. It happened as it was supposed to because you were involved. I digress....

Remember Stoics were heavily religious and the gods factored into a lot of their though but in book 5 Marcus is assuring that a man naturally performs the duty for which he has been designed to carry out—every bit as much as a dog, a horse, a bee, or a fig tree.

wildnight98 · 2018-06-13T12:38:11+00:00

A third is, in a sense, not even conscious of what he has done; he is rather like a vine which has produced its grapes, and seeks for no further reward once it has borne its proper fruit, as with a horse when it has run its race, or a dog when it has followed its trail, or a bee when it has made its honey.

Seems like Aurelius is describing acting in such a way as to consistently produce social value without thinking about it or expecting any particular reward. The key, I think, is the particularity of desire for recognition. Aurelius seems to acknowledge that the socially valuable should benefit overall as a natural matter of course, but the desire to receive specific appreciation is a problem.

This seems consistent with MRP's prescription to always demonstrate social value (DHV) while being OI and DGAF and operating in your own frame rather than others', which I think usually includes forgoing the desire to be specifically recognized or appreciated for acts of social value--but recognizing yourself that you benefit from being socially valuable.

InChargeMan · 2018-06-13T21:20:00+00:00

One thing I like to think about regarding "good deeds" is to try to make it as altruistic seeming as possible, where the person (woman) on the receiving end doesn't see it as you trying to gain favor.

As I like to put it, "Awesomeness oozes from your pores" and they are lucky to be around you. The worst thing you can do is do something nice for a woman then sit there expecting praise or something in return. Like a cat leaving a dead mouse on your doorstep. I like to try to forget anything nice I do for her, so when she thanks me half the time I don't even remember what it was. She needs to understand two things:

You do awesome shit sometimes
She happens to be on the receiving end of awesome shit by the fact that she is around you, not because she is special. Any other woman who happens to be around you when you feel like doing something awesome will also benefit. You are the prize.

RuleZeroDAD · 2018-06-13T15:46:54+00:00

The concept of "Karma" is the stupidest thing ever foisted on humanity.

idle135 · 2018-06-14T05:51:32+00:00

When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full

Matthew 6:16

Same idea. When you do what you’re SUPPOSED to do, don’t expect anything for it. Your rewards are from you, not given to you by someone else. When you’re acting as a man would act, the reward is internal. Remember, MRP is to IMPROVE THE SELF, not to do things that will result in more sex. The sex is what pilots would call a lag instrument. It shows trends with your relationship but is not in and of itself a performance instrument.

trpbritguy · 2018-06-14T16:19:19+00:00

This is also what "Nice Guy" is all about! A lifetime of covert contracts all turning into hatred.

Title	Covert Contracts according to Marcus Aurelius
Author	redwall92
Upvotes	19
Comments	17
Date	June 13, 2018 12:03 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/askMRP
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/8qrvhu/covert_contracts_according_to_marcus_aurelius/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/askMRP/covert-contracts-according-to-marcus-aurelius.204349 https://theredarchive.com/post/204349

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