For the love of God can someone explain to an autistic more on frame?

resolutions316 · 2017-09-18T20:20:33+00:00

Frame is a muddy concept that's able to be interpreted in multiple ways. It's hard to grasp because it means slightly different things to different people.

For me, frame is "the narrative a person has in their head about what's happening."

Different narratives can come into conflict; eventually, one will win out, when the other person starts to subtly accept the other person's narrative.

Useful books:

Frame Control https://www.amazon.com/Frame-Control-Subconscious-Conversational-Dominance-ebook/dp/B014GMBQPK

When I Say No, I Feel Guilty https://www.amazon.com/When-Say-No-Feel-Guilty-ebook/dp/B004IK8Q22/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1505766023&sr=1-1&keywords=when+i+say+no+i+feel+guilty

Never Split The Difference https://www.amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-Negotiating-Depended-ebook/dp/B014DUR7L2/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1505766002&sr=1-1&keywords=never+split+the+difference

InChargeMan · 2017-09-18T21:02:01+00:00

Things happen to a man without frame. A man with frame happens to the world.

FlyingSexistPig · 2017-09-18T21:26:34+00:00

There are underlying assumptions in everything that someone says. When your GF say, "Did you take the trash out?" There is the underlying assumption that it's your job to take out the trash, and that it's her job to harp on you about it. If you were to reply "no", she would follow up with a "Could you please do that now?" or something similar, reinforcing the worldview. You are completely in her frame now.

What if instead, you responded, "No, did you?"? You're pushing the question back on her. You're challenging this view that it's somehow your job to take out the garbage, or that it's her job to harp on you about it. If she responds to your question by saying that she thought it was your job to take out the garbage, then you could ask her if she also thought it was her job to harp on you about it.

You could ask her if she remembered to give you a blow job this morning, and then in the exact tone of voice she used, say, "Could you please do that now?"

The frame of how she said it matters. If she's assigning you chores, that's not okay. If she's going over a list of things that needs to be done, then it's probably okay.

Does that make more sense?

223552 · 2017-09-18T22:37:29+00:00

I am late 30's, and until I came here 9 months ago I had 0 frame, literally, all my life, I allowed other people or circumstances to dictate my life.

It took me 3 months to grasp the idea of frame, I am aware of it now, I can hold frame a lot of the time now, and the times when I do fail, I can clearly rationalize where and how I went wrong.

You put an example where you wife wants to talk. If you are in your frame You either want to talk to her, and say "Yeah lets talk", or if you are busy/or don't want to talk " Sorry, I am in the middle of something, lets talk at x time".

When you stop doing everything to speak with your wife, to make her feel better, OR to make yourself look like an attentive husband, you are in her frame.

Another example, recently I had to get a small dent fixed on my car. When I picked it up and came home, I saw that paint was not matched well. I was annoyed, and frustrated. The weak frame in me was trying to convince me that its ok, and its only a small area (my ego trying to avoid confrontation), the other part of me wanted the car fixed properly. I rang and said I am not happy with the paint job, the lady gave me a whole spill how they can never match it perfectly, etc, etc. The old me would have engaged her (deered) how its not matching, and it should be matching, and how others can do it better, instead all I wanted to say is that I am not happy with the job, and I would like it fixed properly. Eventually she gave up, and said bring it in to get it checked. I brought the car back, the sprayer had one look at it, and said he got the mix wrong, and if I can bring it back to get it redone, in that interaction all I said was " ok, thank you, lets set a date".

Things that worked for me, was starting to spend time by myself, and think on what I want to do, when you are around other people, its very easy to be influenced by someone else, especially when they have strong frame. Pay attention to other people, especially in confrontational situations, and watch if a person stands their ground assertively, or becomes passive/aggressive.

At home if I am unsure about something, I think what would I do if I was by myself, or single dad, how would I handle this particular situation, or how would I spend the day.

rocknrollchuck · 2017-09-18T22:56:26+00:00

A Practical Guide to Building Frame

2017-09-19T01:49:04+00:00

Read: How to win friends and influence people. My guess is you are too nice...not nice guy dismiss your needs nice guy, but nice guy I'll hear out your opinion and debate it nice guy.

If you give her an inch, she'll take a mile.

Downhere_Seeds · 2017-09-18T21:34:37+00:00

Draw a big circle around you, everything that is important to you put in side the circle with you: People, family, ideals, theories, truth, gadgets, etc. It's up to you to decide what is important inside the circle. You will protect everything inside this circle, keep the bad people and things out of the circle. The circle represents your boundaries, what you will allow, what you won't and what needs to go around. Your frame is protecting this boundary and HOW you protect this boundary.

These circles can overlap or collide, take for example money. It's probably in your circle and hers. Hopefully you are thinking about savings, but she may be thinking about buying an expensive pair of shoes. If you are in her frame she is spending money on whatever she wants and you aren't doing anything about it. If you hold frame, you are not allowing her to do this, or you may compromise and give her some, but less than she really wants.

towaway123458 · 2017-09-18T22:26:26+00:00

This is an overly simplistic explanation, but I view "frame" as being 100% in control of yourself. In control of your beliefs, your emotions and your behaviors.

Start with your belief. In every interaction, think: "Do I believe this person is entitled to X?"

X could be anything.

For example, do you believe her question deserves a serious answer? Or conversely, do you believe a expression of affection deserves to be reciprocated? It's not in her frame if you simply do what you believe in.

Now, this then leads to the problem that most betas' beliefs are fucked up. So you must also ask yourself if you're in control of your emotions.

Think: "Are my emotions being manipulated in this interaction?"

If she says something stupid or hateful and you get angry, sad, etc then you're in her frame...regardless of what you believe. Work on not being emotionally affected by your interactions with her.

Finally, you should ask who you are behaving and taking action for.

Think: "Am I doing X for her or for me?"

Let's say you're sitting in bed and she asks you to get up and get her some water. You may believe she has a right to have her thirst quenched. You may also not be emotionally affected by this request at all. But if you're taking action simply because she asked you to and you get nothing out of it except her happiness...you're in her frame.

A man with frame acts for himself for the benefit of himself, and sometimes these actions benefit other people, too. But the first and foremost reason is because doing X made YOU happy.

Does that help?

matrixtospartanatLV · 2017-09-19T02:43:01+00:00

When I hear the word, 'frame', I think of a door frame.

Through that door goes every word, every action, and every thought I choose to put into my world.

That frame shapes my presence I project into the world and influences how the world perceives and receives me.

That frame defines my values, my priorities, and is the final arbiter of who I am and present myself to be.

You are never without frame.

If you are not in your frame, you are in someone else's. This happens when your frame is weak, or almost nonexistent.

The REAL question becomes, how do you strengthen your frame?

Your frame is your mind.

Feed your mind. Develop it. Exercise it.

I use MRP for my frame. Works in marriage, work, kids, daily life.

Frame. What kind of man do you want to be? That's what you build your frame with.

I want to be strong, confident, the oak, the mountain, dependable, but also sexual, cocky funny, Alpha/Beta maybe 80/20 to 85/15 split.

In addition to MRP reading I've added some books on stoicism and Greek Philosophy. Working them in as I go.

You reap what you sow.

What are you sowing?

What are you feeding your mind?

If you aren't actively, consciously doing it, you are a product of your environment and that's why you feel so fucked up.

Take control of what goes in your eyes and ears at least part of the time and put shit in that you want to come out of your mouth and actions.

Rian_Stone · 2017-09-19T22:13:57+00:00

Autism is frame. You have reality, and it buckets for nothing

2017-09-21T16:31:19+00:00

For the sake of giving you a different way of understanding this concept that I've used with people on the spectrum who had trouble with social cues:

Frame is the context of a situation, specifically based on whether you're doing something from a position of strength or a position of weakness. You can do the exact same action and it can be with a strong frame or a weak frame based on if you're doing it from a position of strength or a position of weakness, respectively. A strong frame is proactive and based primarily on dealing with things you can control. A weak frame is reactive and based primarily on dealing with things that you can't control.

Here's a simple, but instructive, example:

If you get your wife flowers purely because that's what you want to do, and you don't attach any kind of covert contract to it, but you just want to do something with your wife, and you don't care how she responds to it (or if she responds to it), then that is a strong frame.
If you get your wife flowers because you expect anything to happen as a result of getting her flowers that you do not have direct control over, like her liking the flowers or being happy or wanting to give you some pussy or appreciating you, then that's a weak frame.

I give this example because it's a case where you can do the exact same thing for two completely different reasons and they can be the result of two completely different frames with completely different results.

towaway123458 · 2017-09-18T19:26:05+00:00

You can think of frame in several ways.

Which also ties into your MAP(male action plan). But a MAP can just be part of your building of your frame.

So it's your foundation, your scaffolding... your worldview. How your family dynamics are.

When you're mired in someone else's frame they fit the facts to support it. ie. Wife gets what she wants or there will be an unhappy house. Wife sees you as a sniveling errand boy, so when you don't drop everything you are doing and go get her a glass of water the world turns upside down.

And important thing to focus on is how you want you want your life...starting from the small things to it's entirety to go, and build your frame around it so that those you are supposedly leading mold to you and not the other way around.

It's will.

You ever have a conversation with someone and they've clearly pigeonholed you into a category that you know doesn't fit your worldview? Do you find yourself conforming to how you think they perceive you? Sometimes even to your detriment? Weak frame. You're pliable and letting others dictate who you are.

People will see you how you see you, but if you're not a firmly established individual...they'll take shortcuts and pigeonhole you.

Do you want to be what you want? Living the life you want, having people see and respect you for who you see yourself and in your terms? Or just be an NPC in their game? It's establishing a powerful frame.

When we speak of the family life, if you've got a weak frame...generally the spouse steps up when they don't want to not only will you live in their frame, but you'll be punished for it as their resentment for having to lead comes to the forefront.

It's expectations.

It's will.

It can indicate things large and small in your personal circles and it's a hard concept to grasp. But you will.

[EDIT] and as for the failing it and falling into old habits. Rome wasn't build in a day, neither will your new world. And like any good framing, it'll only work when it is solid... expected, reliable, rock steady. Start with the base and work your way up. It's what ALL of these tools and techniques lead up to. A solid frame. STFU, AA, AM, NGAF, ... Stocism...etc.

screechhater · 2017-09-18T23:50:44+00:00

This is frame-

she says, "I don't have to have sex everyday anymore, ya know...."

you say, "ok" So who in the fuck died and made her the ruler of the universe ?

you did, and you re-enforced it by living on her verbal terms, which becomes her physical terms and then some (women) get off on the control

Another is, "let's go to dinner, I want a burger."

her- "I hate burgers"- you, "ok" "how about Chinese?" (god I fucking hate Chinese you think)

seething anger after a while- "fucking bitch, never had a burger while being with her, cunt....."

I use this, because we are looking @ "sexual strategy." Got it ?

Title	For the love of God can someone explain to an autistic more on frame?
Author	towaway123458
Upvotes	8
Comments	31
Date	September 18, 2017 6:56 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/askMRP
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/70x4hq/for_the_love_of_god_can_someone_explain_to_an/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/askMRP/for-the-love-of-god-can-someone-explain-to-an.205425 https://theredarchive.com/post/205425

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