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May 4, 2017

Here is my original post from December for background:

Started MRP: Sep 2016

Out of action (illness): Dec 2016 - Apr. 2017

Lift x5 per week: Bench 100kg, Squat 140kg, DL 180KG (current PRs)

Stats: 5', 10", 10-12% BF, cutting to under 10% for end of June.

Sidebar: NMMNG, WISNIFG, Pook, Rational Male, Started day bang

Things were working out great; language lessons, a bit of day game, hobbies...then I got sick. I'm not going to dwell on it. It was a painful time but I'm still here. Long story short, it set me back A LOT but i've just about recovered and ready to get back on the wagon.

Anyway, I ended up here (MRP) because i was rarely getting sex from the wife. I've been through the anger phase. I can see the mistakes I made. You live and learn. The sex improved but it was a real effort to get there. I'm fine with that.

But here's the problem; Now I don't want to have sex with HER.

Before I would look at her on the sofa flicking through Facebook and wonder why she never wants to have sex with me. Now I see the same picture and find it deeply unattractive.

Don't get me wrong, I still have a lot of work to do. But I read through these posts about adding value and realise that she doesn't really add any. I handle almost everything at home. She takes the kids to school and looks after the little one in the day, then she collects them in the afternoon and gets them ready for bed in the evening. Almost everything else I handle even though most of it is a PITA to do during the work day (washing clothes, shopping, cooking - I work from home BTW). Honestly, I find it easier to do most of this stuff myself rather than have a inane five minute phone call about what we should eat for dinner. You may say this is bad leadership. Fuck it. The "what should we get for dinner" conversation is worse that putting your balls in a vice.

She still won't exercise even though I've been trying to get her to go to a gym or class since our son was born four years ago. She's not fat (she has the opposite genetics) but not in shape either and not looking any better for it.

During ovulation week she'll get frisky (after we've watched some program she is interested in and then got in bed and turned the lights off). Fuck that. I'm just not interested. I had to turn her down this evening. I couldn't even feign interest.

I'm aware i'm ranting. Let's cut it this ambivalence a normal part of the process or do I have a lot more work to do?

Post Information
Title Ambivalence
Author zeno_of_shitium
Upvotes 7
Comments 20
Date 04 May 2017 11:39 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Original Link
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Red Pill terms found in post:
day gameleadershipWISNIFGliftgameNMMNG

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill6 points7 points  (6 children) | Copy

She still won't exercise even though I've been trying to get her to go to a gym or class since our son was born four years ago.

Our wives mirror us, albeit they are usually behind us in progress. So you're still recovering from what seems like a acute illness, and you want her to come out the other side like a hot fitness model?

Add to this, you can't make anyone do anything and expect it to stick. Sure, she might comply for a little while, but that's all it will be is compliance.

Keep getting jacked. Upgrade your wardrobe. Get financially fit, and all that. Follow the steps of dread, and let nature take its course. She'll either step up or someone will replace her. A high value man is desirable, but in her eyes you're not there yet.

Your also committing a covert contract, namely "I'm getting in shape why isn't she hot and hot for me because of it?". That's wrong. She's her own person and makes her own choices, even if they are wrong in your eyes.

[–]zeno_of_shitium[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

I should clarify; She hasn't exercised in years. I've been sick for four or five months and even then I've hit the gym as often as I could manage.

The gym issue is only one indicator of general attitude although there are obvious benefits for both of us if she was getting into shape.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Again, her effort is a reflection of you. She puts the value into the relationship she gets out of it.

[–]sixdownsevenup2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

This is something I have been reflecting on and wonder about. As a first reaction I can see that this is exactly the right way to look at it. But, at some point, doesn't her lack of effort simply reflect her. If I put in the work consistently over a long period of time and see all the other indicators of my progress, it has to be on her at some point?

I guess that is the point of running the MAP is that the last stages are where this assessment is made concrete?

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

But, at some point, doesn't her lack of effort simply reflect her

Look at this way, everyone is egotistic. They are focused on themselves, first and foremost. So initially he's building value in himself, plotting a course to achieve his mission.

A woman too can choose, is it better in my self interest to be a part of that mission, or can I just be a parasite and achieve similar goals (Divorce Rape, beta bucks, etc.). If redpill is amoral, so are these strategies. Your goal is to provide a framework where she can add the most value to your life, while minimizing and eliminating negative strategies.

.... it has to be on her at some point?

It's on her all the time. She chooses to be there. She has her own feelings and reasons for investment. It's up to her to operate within the boundaries you allow, such as sexual exclusivity and submission to your leadership. But that starts with showing how to lead, and being a high value man.

[–]sixdownsevenup2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Effective clarification - appreciate it.

[–]JDRoedellRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yes, I agree with you. There's many examples of men here who did the work, add value and their wives just don't feel the need to add value back. Some have divorced and some are considering it.

Not every woman will come around. Not every woman will crawl through broken glass for the right Chad. PFP lays this out well.

[–]BobbyPeru3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

When did you swallow the pill?

Are you lifting?

Did you read the sidebar?

This info should come first - your other post and this post was all about her.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Another FR that would be better with the roles reversed.

You're still in the anger phase, and its killing your vibez, man. She DNGAF, initiates when she wants, etc.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

This is a normal thing for men who have made improvement. I imagine you want to stay married. I'd encourage you to actively seek out value from your wife-- what attracted you to her initially? Bring out the feminine energy from her. Enjoy the feminine polarity that she brings.

If, after a while of trying to foster her best qualities, she's still a waste of space then you'll know whether to stay or go

[–]zeno_of_shitium[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

This is good advice. Though I often feel resentful towards her and when I do I actively sabotage the process by withdrawing into brooding monk mode. How do you deal with that?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Focus on your mission. Whatever that means to you. I've found it helpful to actively lean into the discomfort that my wife provides. To revel in the bullshit

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

is this ambivalence a normal part of the process?

Yes, for the many co-dependent men here who needed sex with their wives primarily for external validation. As you begin to develop your own frame this need reduces, and so does the validation-needy desire, leaving a partial void in desire. Many men here report that it is eventually replaced with a healthy physical and intimate desire; others find that the relationship was built only on co-dependency.

It sounds like you had such a need for her sexual validation that you traded away all other expectations and contributions of her to the marriage in a vain attempt to get it. Now that you're done with that, MAP out your vision, goals, expectations, and mutual contributions for a healthy, happy marriage and begin setting boundaries and pushing toward that. Your desire for her may be rekindled as you build a healthier, more balanced relationship.

[–]zeno_of_shitium[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for writing this. You pretty much nailed it.

[–]fakefalse0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You are not out of the anger faze yet.
You are upset by her being fat.
You are bothered at how little she contributes.
She doesn't give you tingles.

Get out. Go do stuff. Be so busy making yourself so awesome, you don't have time to be ambivalent about her.

She is your entire focus. She aggravates you. Leave. Go do something outside of the house. Sit and read a book at the coffee shop. Then join a book reading discussion group. Then write one. Baby steps.

You've made great progress. Now focus on you, and make more progress.

[–]zeno_of_shitium[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Not fat -> skinny, out of shape.

You're right. I basically need to an MRP reset.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She sounds like a useless cunt, consider prepping yourself for divorce

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You started in Sept. In December you got sick. That's 3 months of beginners RP, and then 5 months of being set back. You were in the negative to start with, now you're even more in the negative. What do you expect?

[–]plein_old0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The "what should we get for dinner" conversation is worse that putting your balls in a vice.

Huh? Not following you here. Why is it so painful?

Some men adore speaking with their wives. Or having their wives cook for them. Yum. Delicious!

Why is it so painful for you? Your previous post said that you spent years of your life hiding from your own issues. Is that over now, or are you still doing that?

[–]screechhaterRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Of course you don't want to have sex with her, once you wipe off the fucking goggles shit becomes clear of what a fucking plugged in robot you became No one's fault, just the way it is get over it

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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