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AskWomen on confidence

tremenfing
September 6, 2013
23 upvotes
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Post Information
Title AskWomen on confidence
Author

tremenfing
Upvotes 23
Comments 24
Date September 6, 2013 12:28 AM UTC
(12 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1ltl8n/askwomen_on_confidence/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/askwomen-on-confidence.233169
https://theredarchive.com/post/233169
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Comments

[–]LaserSoundMusic 10 points11 points12 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The definitions of words do NOT matter. "I like introverted guys who are outspoken, opinionated, and not afraid to speak their mind!" Uhh, what?

[–]DrMungMung 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Translation: "I have no idea what I want except at the time I meet a guy and FEEL something"

[–]clack-a-lack 9 points10 points11 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I feel like since the whole "the world is built around extroverts" fad came along, people started using introversion as an excuse for poor social skills.

[–]just_an_ordinary_guy 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Eh, a lot might. However, I am an introvert that has been seen as socially awkward. If I appear that way, it is probably because I don't feel like making small talk. That shit is boring as Fuck.

[–][deleted] 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]just_an_ordinary_guy 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is true. It wasn't anyone that I gave a shit about anyway.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm on the same page as you -- small talk is a waste of my time.

[–][deleted] 12 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan 26 points27 points28 points 12 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

See we have to go deeper down the rabbit hole, I'd consider myself an introvert in some peoples company, and an extrovert in others, it really depends on the company. If I'm around people who aren't intellectuals or around people who are flat out arrogant and/or dumb/vapid etc then I'm pretty introverted. I tend to ignore those people but say its a scenario where I can't escape, I don't look to "out socially dominate" them. Talk louder. Challenge them. Try and show each other up etc. I can't be fucking doing with all that, it's a lot of fucking hassle, really and I don't feel like I need to be "the leader", saying that, I can lead, quite well and if I know the topic/area I can dominate it, but I won't engage in bullshit social games with people who want to fight for domination just so I can have a chance at it.

When I was younger I would have slanging matches with people, verbally, and it always ends in you and/or the other person getting very colourful/vile in order to "be leader" and it really fucks up the group dynamic, it leaves a sour taste and makes everyone else listening/watching feel awkward and "pick sides", so now I go the other way and don't validate things I don't like. I'm tall and broad so I have presence, and you find insecure guys pick up on that very quickly and will start throwing shit tests at you, they wanna out alpha you in their own mind because your genetics command presence on a primal level. They can be jacked/broad chiseled 6'3 guys, or they can be 5'5 indian skinny guys, it matters not - if they're insecure they will shit test you/try to show you up/act like cunts.

I can be witty, I like banter, I like throwing comebacks at people and not taking offence to rude things, but that's banter and in jest, not offhand bullshit to see "who leads the pack" or what fucking ever, I can tell the difference between the two and read the subtle nuances which distinguish between the two very well, even if said person is a cunt, doesn't really like me and is being intellectually dishonest to cover their own ass by saying "it's just a joke" in order to win the battle of social dominance, if "the joke" isn't funny chances are you weren't meant to laugh and that shit's a cover for being a dick.

Anyhow, I may have digressed somewhat. The previous type of introversion I explained is essentially not being stimulated by my surroundings, the people around me, and not really being able to connect with them. There's no fear, anxiety or otherwise emotionally crippling and inhibiting things that make me incapable of "being alpha" or "taking charge" or "leading" I just don't really connect with the company I'm with, the conversation is boring, we're on different levels - so I won't lead the interaction or fight to lead it. This is a "chosen" type of introversion, one where you do your own thing because present company is actually incredibly exhausting to entertain/talk with/connect with.

The other type of introversion which comes to mind is the one stemming in fear/lack of confidence/anxiety. You're out of your comfort zone, you don't know the place/people/subject matter and you feel you have no grounding socially. Your introversion is based on fear of looking stupid and being laughed at rather than being unable to connect with people on your level. Like a very skinny introvert just joining the gym is being introverted in that moment because of fear/lack of confidence, versus the same dude when he's surrounded by vapid women and is thinking about devising a methodology for a random theory that's popped into his head, or requires some sort of intellectual banter, or witty/jabbing banter and not idle gossip.

In the right company (if I'm surrounded by people who are either sarcastic or intellectual) as an introvert I can be very loud/vocal because I find it easy to connect with these people. We can exchange double entendre, discuss philosophy, discuss strategies, machiavellianism, whatever, there's real rapport and flow. Stick me in an office with a bunch of women/manginas and I'll be the quietest least popular dude there, unlike an extrovert introverts don't mirror/chameleon to their environments, they avoid environments they aren't compatible with and only show "outgoingness" in environments with people they can connect with.

No to be offensive to anyone, but you don't really find many stupid people who are introverts unless they have (un)diagnosed learning disorders. Stupid people are more impulsive, they get off on the challenge and experience of social interactions (dopamine) and sort of "feel their way along", introverts are more thinkers, not feelers, a lot of thinking has enhanced their wisdom/knowledge of the world and thus even if their IQ isn't sky high, you find they tend to be smarter people. Introverts are generally smarter people due to all that thinking they do. Extroverts can be at all levels of intelligence, I've known maybe one or two ENTJs (I personally fluctuate between ENTJ and INTJ and honestly don't want to hear anyone's thoughts on the validity of MBTI because it seems people just love to slaughter its validity as some sort of academic pastime) however ENTJs are pretty rare.

So sure, extroverts can be smart people but they tend not to be, you find there is a huge congregation of them at the bottom of the intellectual ladder following impulses and getting involved on a whim, it seems the dumber you are, the less you think and the more you "just do shit" - interpret this how you will, good, bad, whatever - but it's in my observations that the more simple minded, less read, less rigorous thinkers in the world have an easier job making up small talk and getting along with strangers they've had little chance to analyze/form opinions on than those whose minds who have grown more and subsequently get a bit (a lot) of disconnect when they're around those who are perceivably to start with at least, nothing like them. However, one thing I think that does remain consistent regardless of company is that extroverts tend to dive in and improvise, introverts are cautious analyzers, they like to build up information on a person before they decide how much of themselves to reveal and how they choose to socialise.

TLDR: Sarcasm can cross the chasms between differences in hobbies, demographic, social class, sociability and whatever, it really is fucking magic.

[–]AaronSorkin6 points 12 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

A fascinating analysis.

You point out a now obvious fallacy around labelling people as introverted, in that the scale from extrovert to introvert is not linear.

[–]just_an_ordinary_guy 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah. And people think shy and weird is "introverted." You can be an extrovert and shy too. It's more than I care to explain. The internet is saturated with this shit, and now everyone thinks they are an introvert because shy and quirky is the in thing.

[–]anakinastronaut 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

In my experience, people are rarely one or the other, and are more often a mixture of the two.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

As an ENTJ, you describe me god damn well.

[–]anakinastronaut 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

ENTJ?

[–]Mooshaq -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Click this.

Also, there is a subreddit for ENTJs.

[–]Koss424 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

well said.

[–]nwilli100 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Wall 'o text incoming

I think you might have a slightly skewed idea of introversion. The official psychological definition is

The direction of or tendency to direct one's thoughts and feelings toward oneself.

So being introverted does not necessarily imply a lack of confidence. It does however imply a significantly lesser need for social validation. One should note that this is generally viewed as an indicator of higher confidence.

I agree that introverts would, in general, engage in fewer overtly confidence demonstrating actions (they aren't going to be going around striking up conversations and being the life of the party). But they can still exude plenty of confidence in their own way.

Let me give you a personal anecdote to from my own personal experience. TL:DR at end of anecdote

I have two friends. Lets call them A and B. Now A is VERY extroverted. Never shuts up, always striking up conversations and generally trying to be the life of the party. B on the other hand seems mildly introverted. He's charismatic and intelligent alright (probably more so than A) but he doesn't have that same desire to be the center of attention.

A, B and I went to a party recently. House Party 60-80 people (big ass house). Friend A quickly went into full social-extrovert mode. Striking up conversations left and right and trying to be the center of attention. And while he did indeed come off as very confident his demeanor grated on the host so badly that A was soon exiled to the backyard (the smoking area).

By contrast B's "social mode" is much more focused on quality over quantity. As a result he ended up pulling one of the hottest girls at the party as well as making friends with the host (B eventually got A let back in to the 'main party').

TL:DR Extrovert friend irritates host at party. More introverted get's the host's friendship and pulls the hot girl.

I don't know about you but I would rather emulate B than A. Of course this is coming from the point of view of someone who has self-diagnosed as mildly introverted so take this with a grain of salt.

[–]x7CR7x 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I've been attracted largely to introverted men for most of the time I've been dating, and introverted men are some of the most opinionated, well-spoken and thoughtful people I've met. Their introversion did not prevent them from being confident. While they may not be the centre of attention or know how to navigate large groups of people socially, they're not pushovers or recluses. They can carry a conversation, almost with too much intensity at times, express themselves articulately and can stand their ground. On the subject at hand, confidence is all about knowing yourself, loving the fuck out of that person, and knowing that you have a lot to offer. All this self-love makes you sure of yourself, sure of your convictions, sure of what you want. Nothing is more sexy than a man who knows his worth and doesn't need anyone's approval or validation, let alone a woman's. It allows him to pursue what he wants in life without fear, whether that be passions, hobbies, or women. Rejection doesn't faze the confident man because he doesn't have to prove shit to you. And that's so attractive because he's coming from a place that isn't validation-seeking. Any woman he interacts with romantically will feel like a partner, an equal. Not someone on a pedestal.

Fuck. I'm guy A, all the goddamned time.

[–]footballtrav891 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

after reading this i think i have an extremely charismatic introvert...i need some time alone to reflect on my inner introvert.

[–]PinkfloydPurplefloyd 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I've been attracted largely to introverted men for most of the time I've been dating, and introverted men are some of the most opinionated, well-spoken and thoughtful people I've met. Their introversion did not prevent them from being confident. While they may not be the centre of attention or know how to navigate large groups of people socially, they're not pushovers or recluses. They can carry a conversation, almost with too much intensity at times, express themselves articulately and can stand their ground. On the subject at hand, confidence is all about knowing yourself, loving the fuck out of that person, and knowing that you have a lot to offer. All this self-love makes you sure of yourself, sure of your convictions, sure of what you want. Nothing is more sexy than a man who knows his worth and doesn't need anyone's approval or validation, let alone a woman's. It allows him to pursue what he wants in life without fear, whether that be passions, hobbies, or women. Rejection doesn't faze the confident man because he doesn't have to prove shit to you. And that's so attractive because he's coming from a place that isn't validation-seeking. Any woman he interacts with romantically will feel like a partner, an equal. Not someone on a pedestal.

These guys don't seem all that introverted to me. What does she gain as painting them as introverts?

[–]ascendant23 21 points22 points23 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The things you highlighted are things that show that he's confident. Not that he's not an introvert.

Introversion means people who expend energy in social situations, and recharge with solitude, while extraversion is the reverse. Introversion is not the same as being sh.y or beta. or anything else. There are plenty of beta extroverts and alpha introverts out there.

[–]Ididerus 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I want the answer to the second part of his question. What is it with women and smelling things?

[–]InsanityManifest 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Pheromones.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"Women don't want to win, but they want a winner." Patrice O'Neil

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