Patriarchy is not a "natural state" of being. Feminism is a return to form.

[deleted] · 2018-01-22T00:56:49+00:00

The "natural state of being" was not especially feminist either. Women had a mostly rigid path set for them and could not try the male social role. A life of bearing children and gathering was all they could hope for.

daveofmars · 2018-01-22T01:14:31+00:00

It's been the said on TRP that if men were ever spirited away then women would go back to living in mud huts. It seems that the writer of the article agrees with this, seeing how our "natural state" means living as nomads in mud huts.

It really, really odd sometimes how the two ends of a spectrum can somehow converge with each other, like radfems and tradcons, or in this case, feminists and TRP.

How about we don't rely on shitty reasoning?

PBRScagsquad · 2018-01-22T01:04:48+00:00

seizing the means of survival

Careful, your Marxism is showing, also no, the patriarchy evolved because it was the best system for the time period and was designed for the protection of women and children, men went out and did the dangerous work because they were better at it while women maintained the home environment and raised children, if it inflated men's value it was only to ensure they all had mates so the proles would have some incentive to work for.

At some point when we evolved to have cognitive abilities

Is this before or after agriculture, do tell.

the males figured out that since they were bigger than women, that they could force women to do whatever they wanted.

Uh huh, do you have anything concrete to back this assertion up with?

The advancement of technology has allowed a large number of people to make a living without using physical labor, something men obviously excelled at. As we shift our economy in this direction, something that has evolved in America steadily over the past 100 years, women are reclaiming our natural birthrights

No, technology is just removing the need for the old system and it is the reason you even have these rights in the first place, let me ask you a question: do you think women would have been able to secure the rights they have now if they did not begin demanding these rights around the same time as technology began to move forward to the point where it was possible for women to do the same work as men?

natural birthrights

And who exactly decides what is and is not a natural birthright?

Electra_Cute · 2018-01-22T00:58:07+00:00

Everything humans do is "natural", there is no line between nature and what is unnatural, that is arbitrarily decided.

"Nature is affected - from without - by an overturning which modifies it in its interior, denatures it and obliges it to be separated from itself. Nature denaturing itself, being separated from itself, naturally welcoming its outside into the inside, is catastrophe, a natural event that over throws nature, or monstrosity, a natural deviation within nature"

The natural state is what humans are in right now, this is all nature, it denatures itself and attacks itself from the inside, making what one thinks is nature into nature.

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madscientistlove · 2018-01-22T01:14:37+00:00

God created Adam and Eve, and his design for humanity was that Adam would be the leader of his wife. There is nothing more natural than Biblical patriarchy. Alternate relationship models are deviations and the result of original sin.

Jammerly1 · 2018-01-22T01:06:26+00:00

Electricity, running water, plumbing, television, radio, smart phones, Reddit, the internal combustion engine, airplanes, X ray machines, etc etc etc are also not a part of our natural state. So what? Are you claiming you want to return to a time before our brains were as large and complicated and we were more like cows or packs of dogs? What exactly is your point.

Also feminism has nothing to do with your weird transient commie slave nonsense. Women have equal rights and have had them since long before I was born. It isn't 1910 anymore grandma.

Plopolok · 2018-01-22T01:14:02+00:00

Early humans may have been polyamorous

"[women's] propensity to make a lot of noise during sex [is] a prehistoric mating call to encourage more men to come and join in."

Would you be willing to return to that too? If every man could join sex everytime, it might be easier to remove all kinds of oppression.

disposableboyfriend · 2018-01-22T01:54:42+00:00

There is so much wrong with this.

Men and women worked in tandem with each other, but neither sex was "dominant" over the other. Each gender could more or less each fend for themselves, similar to what we see other mammal groups today, who move in herds, and have loose social structures.

We are a sexually dimorphic species. So are chimpanzees, gorillas, and orangutans. Males are substantially stronger than females. As hunters-gatherers, in general, men hunted and women gathered, because hunting is more dangerous and physically demanding.

At some point when we evolved to have cognitive abilities, the males figured out that since they were bigger than women, that they could force women to do whatever they wanted.

This is backwards. Males did not need highly-evolved cognitive abilities to figure out that they could force women. They just needed to be stronger -- which they were, by a large margin. If anything, it is precisely because of our more evolved cognitive abilities that we treat each other more equally.

Patriarchy is basically men inflating their overall value to women and forcing our dependence by seizing the means of survival and forcing women to go through men to get it. Patriarchy probably started out benevolent, or at least neutral, and grew to be increasingly oppressive and misogynistic over time.

No, the "overall value" of men was already intrinsically higher than women's in both hunter-and-gatherer and agricultural lifestyles. About the only exception is women being able to bear children. Hunting generates far, far more calories than gathering. Agriculture is very physically demanding. Men, because they are stronger, are more efficient at converting food (calories) into labor (which eventually produces more calories). Plus, it's also hard and dangerous to deal with large domesticated animals, like cows and horses.

Our ancient concepts of God revolved around Goddess / Nature and fertility worship. The shift to Patriarchy led to the rise of male-centric religions such as Islam, Judaism, and Christianity. As far as religions go, these are relatively new, as they are only about 2000 or so years old.

Never mind that Judaism is about 3,500 years old, and Islam is only about 1,500 years old. Never mind all the other major religions, like Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, and so on. Never mind all the other parts of the world that do not practice Abrahamic religions, yet somehow also ended up with a patriarchy.

That includes, voting, the ability to own property, reproductive rights, education, the ability to work outside of the home, etc.

Vast majority of men were not able to vote throughout most of history. Reproductive rights did not exist for anybody until the advent of birth control. Education was reserved for the very few.

Feminism is a return to a natural state of being. These rights that women are now all “asking for” were ours to begin with...

No. Women never had any rights. Nor did men. There are no inherent, intrinsic, God-given rights. The only right is might.

The natural state of things is humans roving the land in small groups of 20 to 50. When their children become too numerous to feed, they get abandoned. When their elderly become to slow to keep up, they get left behind. When one such group encounters another, in some cases they kill each others' men and rape each others' women.

The author is correct that the advancement in technology is changing things. Most of this technology has been invented by men. And there is nothing natural about the changes that are coming.

Title	Patriarchy is not a "natural state" of being. Feminism is a return to form.
Author	Jammerly1
Upvotes	2
Comments	33
Date	January 22, 2018 12:55 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/7s21kd/patriarchy_is_not_a_natural_state_of_being/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/patriarchy-is-not-a-natural-state-of-being.263908 https://theredarchive.com/post/263908

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