Q4WOMEN: Do you believe in good and evil?

lollygagyo · 2016-09-16T16:45:52+00:00

No. But I think some things are harmful and some things are not harmful.

I try to act so as to create the least possible amount of harm to others and myself in my life. But there's a balance there -- I'm also pursuing pleasure.

I don't believe in free will under that exact definition. But I certainly believe in the autonomy and agency of individuals.

I think RP is harmful if implemented in its entirety.

Morality doesn't have a ''purpose'' -- it just is. It's human to be moral. It's human to seek justice. Of course, the fact that we're naturally moral and seek justice is why we tend towards organised, collectivist societies rather than anarchy.

I know you love Nietzsche and I like it in theory, but I find it impractical. The words don't line up with my lived experiences.

HigHog · 2016-09-16T16:56:45+00:00

I think morality consists of evolved psychological mechanisms, values and norms that work together to suppress or regulate self-interest and make cooperative societies possible*. Moral impulses mainly comes from our intuitions/emotions, and we use strategic reasoning to try to justify them. In terms of following my own moral system, I'm a fan of virtue theory personally, and weighted utilitarianism for policy.

Good and evil I see as actions I feel affect the wellbeing of conscious beings, though there are also dimensions to morality other than harm.

/* Abridged version of Haidt's definition.

impossibleworlds · 2016-09-16T21:17:50+00:00

If so, how would you describe your moral or ethical beliefs?

This is difficult. I see elements of interest in many moral systems that I've encountered, but I don't follow one in particular. Essentially I believe in pursuing constrained self-interest. The "altruism" above and beyond that that I exhibit I believe is a consequence of luxury. A luxury notably enabled by a society with a collective social contract.

I have my quibbles w/ all the major moral theorists but it's all fun to think about.

What is good to you? What is evil to you?

Good is subjective to me. Evil is not. Evil is simple - abject cruelty.

Where does your morality stem from? As in, what makes you believe what you do?

I was raised with a specific moral code from religion, intermixed with some solid instruction in looking out for my self-interest. I wasn't really raised to see these two as inherently in conflict or diametrically opposed.

That said, I believe I'm heavily influenced by incentives; if they were to change, I have no doubt that I would change to accommodate them.

Do you follow a system of morality or do you roll your own code?

Own code.

Do you believe in free will? Free will as in the ability to perform any possible action at any moment.

I'm a compatibilist.

Do you believe rp is good, evil, or neither?

Neither really, but it depends on how it is applied.

What is your view on justice?

Justice should be meted out on this earth to the best of our ability, since we can't be sure that there will be any in the afterlife.

What is the purpose of morality to you?

I think the purpose is twofold; to expand our consciousness and our ability to relate constructively with each other, and to influence our collective systems of justice.

[deleted] · 2016-09-16T18:24:40+00:00

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questioningwoman · 2016-09-16T17:43:21+00:00

Some things are objectively evil. Look at this and tell me it isn't evil http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/545440/Kraigen-Grooms-Teen-Baby-Rape-Iowa-Sex-Offender-Ottumwa-Vile-Evil

sunkindonut149 · 2016-09-16T17:54:53+00:00

I am a blue pill, nonbinary, radical feminist and SJW. Politically, I'm a neurodiversity (mental illness) activist, BLM supporter, and more in real life and I'm very serious about it.

If so, how would you describe your moral or ethical beliefs?

Don't be a dick. Be a good neighbor.

What is good to you? What is evil to you?

prosocial, antisocial within a specific cultural context

Where does your morality stem from? As in, what makes you believe what you do?

Positive reciprocal ethics and respect for individual liberty within a loose greater-good framework, because I like to look what patterns have worked within history.

Do you follow a system of morality or do you roll your own code?

Liberalism and humanism

Do you believe in free will? Free will as in the ability to perform any possible action at any moment.

I believe that a greater degree of free will can be achieved through knowledge (internal and external) than through acting upon impulse. I believe that part of the goal of human education and mental development is the increase of one's free will through morality.

This, in turn, has positive effects on society as a whole. The surplus generated by peace and prosperity causes not only individual flourishing but community flourishing as each generation stands upon the shoulders of previous ones.

Do you believe rp is good, evil, or neither?

I believe seduction is neither good nor evil. I don't know enough about the teleology of RP to comment but it seems to have antisocial goals.

The social skills and dating training that RP philosophy rests upon is good, because it promotes socialization. I learned a lot through RP teachings personally, especially the Powertalk and Shit Test threads. But some elements (dark triad, tricking people) I consider to have antisocial traits.

What is your view on justice?

The purpose of justice is to educate people in morality and to check the negative effects that antisocial behavior (for example, murder) has upon society.

What is the purpose of morality to you?

The purpose of morality is to increase the degree of liberty and prosperity given to each individual so that they can live life in the way that they so choose and help others to do the same.

Bonus: My ideal government is somewhere in between Athenian democracy and 'The Great Learning' by Confucius - basically an ideal of broad based democracy, small government, and individual responsibility.

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Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2016-09-16T17:28:19+00:00

im red

Good and Evil are religious concepts, i am a skeptical materialist so no i dont believe in good and evil.

Objectivist ethics generally comports with my personal ethics

i do not "follow" objectivist ethics, when i discovered objectivism as an adult it reflected the basic worldview i had already come to

i believe humans have a good illusion or facsimile of free will within the constraints of human nature, biology, culture and character. its range is sufficient to term it free will, but it is not unfettered by reality

RP is not a moral system or a religion it is a description of male and female seuxal natures and a collection of tips and tools for men to navigate the modern emancipated, disinhibited SMP more successfully. it is morally neutral

justice is a political concept, not an ethical or moral one. i hold the same view of justice that undergirds the US constitution, procedural justice that protects one from encroachments on natural rights, not social justice

morality is theoretically an indiividual code for living, i dont think morality outside of religion is a thing at all and all moral philosophy was the half step between religion and law/ethics and an attempt to preserve the altruist/collectivist aspects of christianity from the impending death of god

[deleted] · 2016-09-16T20:58:39+00:00

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jackandjill22 · 2016-09-16T20:28:22+00:00

No, I don't believe in "good" and "evil" and think those are religious terms. I do believe in "live and let live" and that is my morality. I don't harm you and you don't harm me. I also don't owe you anything and you don't owe me anything.

I personally choose to abstain from drugs and alcohol, eat well, exercise, and not sleep around, but not because of morality, but because they benefit me health wise.

I do believe in free will, outside of things you can't control (your race, country you were born in, etc.). I don't believe you can have everything you want. I will never be a Broadway singer.

I believe Red Pill has a lot of good points and posts. I actually only see the anger leading toward misogyny as the major downside, and that is not present in all users. It's annoying that they generalize women, but you don't make rules and a philosophy based on exceptions.

I have no problem with Red Pill.

Not sure what you mean by "view on justice." Justice is a great thing.

As I said, I'm live and let live. I don't care about anyone's particular morality as long as I'm not harmed directly and I am not obliged unfairly.

sunkindonut149 · 2016-09-16T21:38:00+00:00

I don't believe in the concepts of "good" and "evil", those are man-man. However, there are prosocial behaviors and antisocial behaviors. Prosocial behaviors are motivated by empathy and are generally considered to be "good". Antisocial behaviors harm others or society at large and are generally considered "evil".

An individual person can display both prosocial and antisocial behaviors in equal measure. So, classifying people as either "good" or "evil", "virtuous" or "sinful" is ignorant. Only actions can be "good" or "evil", not people.

As for my own personal morality, I don't follow any religious teachings. I have my own inner moral compass, I just naturally have empathy for other people. So, I generally live by a combination of "do what thou wilt" and "do no harm". I believe in balance in all things, and that all things have a purpose. But that's about as spiritual as I get.

I believe in limited free will. It's like how a fish in a tank has the freedom to swim to the left side of the tank or the right side.

I perceive RP as evil, because it actively works against my own interests and could potentially harm me. In all actuality, it's probably neither good nor evil.

The universe has no justice, any and all justice must be created. We have an instinct for vengeance-based justice, but it's not a healthy practice for society.

I believe morality evolved because humans required it as the most highly socially organized animal in the world. We needed an incentive for prosocial behavior, behaviors that would bond individuals together and further us as a species. Empathy and guilt arose as incentive and counterincentive respectively. We feel good when we help others, we feel bad when we hurt others. That basic instinctual response is the root of morality.

alderheart · 2016-09-16T23:33:31+00:00

I'm a Christian, and I believe in good and evil.

Jesus is good. Westboro Bsptists are evil pretending to be good.

My morality stems from the Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I believe what I believe because it makes sense.

Free will is a pipe dream of underemployed academics.

RP is like "Heck's Angels": they think they're evil, but they're just grotty and badly behaved.

Justice is Humans trying to justify retribution.

I try to be moral. I'm only human, though.

hakosua · 2016-09-17T14:46:58+00:00

I'm coming late to the conversation but I can't resist. These are wonderful questions!

I'm non-red and typically default to blue although I consider myself more grey.

I don't believe in good and evil because I don't beliefe in free will and the concepts of 'good' and 'evil' imply choice. I believe our behaviors stem from an interaction between internal factors (biology, lived experience), external factors (context), and random chance.

I do believe that good, evil, and blame-worthiness or culpability have all developed as useful heuristics for determining how to behave and how to respond to others' behavior. Not only does shaming evil behavior provide us with a means of incentivizing good behavior, but the concept of blame-worthiness is also an (albeit imperfect) heuristic which can help determine if a bad decision might be repeated and, if so, under which circumstances. I think the ability to predict and prevent future harmful behavior is much more important than the ability to obtain retribution from someone who did harm in the past. This article in the Atlantic contains a cool discussion of how the criminal Justice system might evolve in light of advances in neuropsychology. In short, we mightn't yet have the technology to determine the scientific explanation for any given instance of misbehavior; however, since we can assume all bad behavior has a scientific explanation behind it, let's focus on prevention rather than punishment.

Although I believe morality is subjective, I'm not a nihilist. I believe emotions are good indicators of underlying values and that it's in our best interests to live according to our values (whether or not we value precisely the same things.) Personally, I get passionate about social inclusivity and egalitarianism, community participation, empathy in the face of cultural or interpersonal barriers, and respect (as demonstrated by balancing one's own needs with the needs of others.)

I'm lukewarm on the concepts of justice and fairness. There's a time and a place for those values; I'd just rather be kind and connect interpersonally with others than sit around explaining why I'm in the right.

I have very little respect for arguments centered around moral disgust and purity. For example, I don't see much if anything morally reprehensible about consensual non-reproductive sibling incest and non-invasive beastiality wherein the animal physically initiates. While I think moral outrage is, for the most part, a good indicator of what is or isn't harmful, there are exceptions. It's important that we check our knee-jerk reactions against our values on a case-by-case basis.

I like that people on the RP tend to embrace moral relativism and that they are proactive in meeting their own needs (rather than getting sucked into the trap of complaining fairness, hoping someone else will fix things for them.) However, philosophies espoused in RP threads typically strike me as absolutist and there's very little acknowledgement of individual differences. RP folks also strike me as oftentimes rather emotion-driven while, at the same time, being very reluctant (and most likely ill-equipped) to describe their behaviors as anything short of rational. I'm afraid I actually find this weirdly endearing; as someone who is likewise good at hamstering, it's cute watching guys who value fairness and rationality hamster away their own emotional impressions. I also like that the RP validates the subjective experiences of male incels and straight guys from more conservative backgrounds. SJWs like myself typically dismiss these groups as "privileged" whereas really I think they're facing some pretty unique and interesting difficulties.

Title	Q4WOMEN: Do you believe in good and evil?
Author	SetConsumes
Upvotes	0
Comments	55
Date	September 16, 2016 4:42 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/532t68/q4women_do_you_believe_in_good_and_evil/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4women-do-you-believe-in-good-and-evil.272958 https://theredarchive.com/post/272958

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