Blue Pillers and Sex-positivism and fantasy fulfillment: where do you draw the line at encouraging risky behavior?

southwer · 2014-09-05T13:15:23+00:00

Because in my mind, that is sexually risky behavior, a LOT of shit could go wrong, not to mention it will have life-changing effects, also known as baggage. Emotional, social, and spiritual, etc.

Here's the thing: theres a difference purely informing someone of the practical risks, and the latter (informing them of the "baggage" associated with it, as you refer to it) with the latter it often drifts into projecting: "trust me you may not feel bad yet but you're going to feel real bad about it! (because I think its gross and I expect/think you should)".

Its like abstinence only sex ed programs. They tend to do this thing where they go "Now I'M not saying youre disgusting for having premarital sex. But people will talk you know? They'll call you a slut. Do you want to be known as a slut?" basically moralising under the guise of concern.

Vs sex ed programs that go "here are the risks, but ultimately its your body"

You bring up "spiritual" baggage even. Really? Should she be concerned that its going to damage her relationship with jesus?

southwer · 2014-09-05T19:53:23+00:00

I would say from a RP point of view, doing this gangbang is not "RP" or "BP", but rather how you perceive it and frame it in your head is what can be RP or BP.

If a girl wants to go have risky sex, unsafe sex, gangbangs, DP, whatever it is she wants to do, that's fine. But when you start to hamster about how it's actually empowering and actually makes you a brave, better, more fun person - aka you deny that the above behavior is going to lower your perceived value in the eyes of 95% of the men you want to date - THAT is when the BP fail begins.

Be as sex-positive, fantasy-chasing, and risky as you want - just be willing to take full ownership of the fact that you are inviting various types of risks and hits to your SMV. When people start to argue that a girl going and doing this shouldn't be judged for it or her next BF should be goddamn pleased she's able to express herself this way, that is when the BP mentality comes in.

Sex + is not inherently a bad thing as I think society does need to come to see sex as more natural and get rid of some of our weird hangups about sex. But when you start to forget about the risks and hamster that sex never has bad personal consequences, because the mainstream "sex +" movement has made you think that sex is ALWAYS positive, you're in full delusion territory.

southwer · 2014-09-05T03:35:02+00:00

I agree with your basic concerns about security. Would you still be concerned if this woman had several trusted people there to keep her safe?

CFRProflcopter · 2014-09-05T04:24:53+00:00

If I don't agree with someone's behaviors, I prefer not to talk about it rather than to speak up. I encourage behavior I like and don't touch behavior that I am not down with. People can do what they want, it's not really a big deal to me as long as I got my shit in order.

ilikereptiles · 2014-09-05T17:53:18+00:00

Not exactly a "blue piller" here, but I could say I'm sex positive. I haven't followed /r/sex nor have I seen the conversation you're talking about, so I'm just going to answer generally. I'll use gang bang as an example, but unrelated to the conversation in /r/sex.

I wouldn't advise against fulfilling fantasies like this as long as it's consensual and legal (so no flashing in public for me), and proper precautions (like condoms, personal safety) are taken care of.

I mean, I would feel queasy if a friend was planning a gang bang with people she/he didn't know well enough, or if he/she wasn't very sexually experienced. There are things that are more hardcore, and I think you should only move to them after experimenting enough to make sure you know yourself and your limits. Have threesomes with people you well, before having full blown gang bangs with strangers involved.

If you will have somebody else bringing people for group sex or anything like that, you should of course know this somebody well enough to be absolutely sure you can trust their judgement. There actually are lots of decent people in the BDSM scene for example, who will be up for a gang bang and will certainly not take photos of you (without permission) or disrespect your limits. You just have to plan well and choose the people smartly.

I believe that if you're doing your sexual experimenting honestly (no cheating monogamous partners), start slowly enough and respect yourself and the others, there's not that huge of a risk of emotional or social backlash. Very sex-positive and experimental people also tend to hang out with like-minded people, so when they're not living in a tiny little village in the middle of bum-fuck nowhere, I wouldn't be that worried about their reputation either.

(sorry about my English, I'm trying to be as coherent as possible!)

[deleted] · 2014-09-05T23:01:18+00:00

You seem to be saying that she might as well do porn if she's doing the gang bang... Am I correct?

Because I'm assuming you know that porn isn't real sex, right? That women in porn don't actually get off most of the time because it's damn uncomfortable and fake (also that it can hurt and be a pretty miserable experience in general)? She has no reason to prefer filming a porn scene rather than than having actual sex with actual people and actually getting off...

Also, some women don't care about smv.

Melodyheart · 2014-09-06T01:15:12+00:00

I read risky sex behaviors, and knew that I had to post here.

Here's the deal; I love sex. I'll be blunt, I don't just enjoy the typical sex positions, I love kinky sex. I personally love being dominated by someone who is bigger than me (I usually like my men taller/bigger than me, sometimes a challenge at 5'11" though). I love being tied down, being told when I'm a good/bad girl, being blindfolded, getting the spreader bars and abuse me with toys. With girls, the idea of being in that position, being in a dominatrix-style love life with me in charge is amazing.

Saying all this and having actual experience, understand that a lot of things may not be appealing to most. I don't go around telling people about my fetishes because most people do find all this horrifying and uncomfortable. Who on earth wants to be insulted verbally by thier partner? Who would ever want to be slapped, that hurts! There is a completely different mindset when it comes to sex with each individual. I'm being extremely open to complete strangers because I think that using myself as an example as a unique (to a certain extent) person. I personally love being tied up/restrained with dirty talk, but I hate pain. Spanking, scratching, and whipping all turns me off. I hate it. I know that some people enjoy the pain inflicted on them. On the flip side, I know people don't want to feel restrained while having sex, that's scary to them.

OP, I understand your nervousness about someone potentially practicing something dangerous, emotionally and physically, but it's almost like coming out of the closet when admitting one's fetishes. When I came out as bisexual, I've had straight people saying I was confused or experimenting, and I've had gay people say that bisexuals don't exist, they are just gay people that don't want to commit or a straight person who wants to be gay. When someone admits a fetish, it's similar to that. It's awkward, most people don't understand, and there is a lot of questioning such as "are you sure you're into that?" And "why would anyone like that?"

To put your mind at ease, most people being sexually adventurous or have experience in trying different sexual experiences are usually understanding if someone finds that something that turns them on in theory, doesn't turn them on in reality. Usually there is a safe word, as well as a trust in the partner(s) someone is with to stop when one person isn't having fun. There is always a good way to come back from that, by the person/people doing a common thing that makes everyone happy.

Usually I don't talk about my sex life (because honestly, who actually gives a fuck what I enjoy?). I really how TRP actually encourages experimenting a bit (at least from what I've seen). You don't have to like anything from missionary, what you enjoy is what you enjoy. Trying to make both sides happy is important, considering sex is a big part of any relationship. For me, sex is something important that I view as being "this is important to me, and I trust you enough to share this with you only." If someone didn't want sex, or wanted many partners, I'm not sure I would be completely happy. No amount of prudence or promiscuity is wrong, but the key is finding someone else who is into that. So if that woman is comfortable enough to have a gangbang with the men she chose, then she should go for it! She should learn the risks of the actions she takes, and have some precautions, so bringing these up is good. Telling her it's dangerous emotionally is probably insulting to her is all.

Reginleifer · 2014-09-05T07:23:43+00:00

First off I got to agree with the moose here. Most people are going to do what they want regardless of quality of advice, so I tend to avoid extended arguments,

Secondly, I admire you giving advice.... and I wished more people would stop and consider advice if not necessarily follow it. People have this ignorant habit of taking offense to advice in this country.

That being said I think that the question you posted in your title isn't a very good one. Not all Blue Pillers (or even Feminists) are "sex positive"., many of them aren't committed to sexual freedom at all when it comes to fantasies and are just as morally selective as the rest of us.

For example, they may not approve of BDSM if the woman is the sub, BDSM communities and a lot of mainstream feminists have long had a bone to pick with each other.

http://jezebel.com/5666107/bdsm-and-feminism-stop-telling-me-what-im-supposed-to-like-dmn-it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_views_on_BDSM#Current_feminist_viewpoints

A lot of feminists are fine with censoring porn if they feel that it "objectifies women" or encourages "violence against women", and are in favor of enacting German "video game policy"..... on it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_views_of_pornography#Anti-pornography_feminism

The entire question is based on a false premise that they don't already have lines however fuzzy on the types of sexual expression that they consider acceptable.

They're no better than us, no matter how loudly their hamster proclaims it.

[deleted] · 2014-09-05T20:40:05+00:00

As adults she (and the men in her gangbang) is responsible for her actions and their consequences. You (or any other) have no right to judge the risk for her and make decisions for her.

GrandCzarOfRedPill · 2014-09-05T15:34:22+00:00

Women in porn are on average in better mental health than women who are not.

Gangbangs have nothing to do with spirituality, presumably by spiritual baggage you mean guilt - this isn't really spirituality, its organized religion.

why_lie_mgtow · 2014-09-05T02:14:47+00:00

Not surprising. American women on average (and in particular white women, I've noticed) have a huge disconnect from the concept that actions have consequences. To her, you were possibly imposing sexism or maybe promoting rape culture, instead of being concerned for her safety.

MagicGainbow · 2014-09-06T07:20:16+00:00

I'm also banned(no reason given), but yeah it's overly sex positive and the mods cannot handle any dissent.

Title	Blue Pillers and Sex-positivism and fantasy fulfillment: where do you draw the line at encouraging risky behavior?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	2
Comments	45
Date	September 5, 2014 2:06 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/2fii71/blue_pillers_and_sexpositivism_and_fantasy/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/blue-pillers-and-sex-positivism-and-fantasy.284946 https://theredarchive.com/post/284946

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