What are the differences between an egalitarian relationship and a RP one? Which is superior?

[deleted] · 2013-12-31T21:23:41+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Modified_Hackware · 2014-01-01T08:45:06+00:00

Obviously this is just in my experiences.

What does a relationship where the man is in charge look like?

No\less arguments, a quiet contentment from me, more space for her to be giddy and laugh at life and not concern herself with too much serious shit.

Great sex and lots of it.

Trust and faithfulness.

What does an egalitarian relationship look like?

More arguments, often over very trivial stuff.

A general lack of direction, lack of motivation or drive individually and via shared ambition.

Become more introverted, she spends all her time watching shit American TV series and I spend all my time playing computer games.

Sex is infrequent, and only occasionally good - hardly ever great.

How do they compare?

Frankly they don't.

Can you provide some examples of how a specific situation might be handled in each kind of relationship? How is one superior to the other?

Red Pill.

"I booked us a table at X restaurant tonight - wear something pretty"

Squeals

-Good evening out, invariably having hot sex afterwards-

Blue Pill

"Do you fancy eating out tonight?"

"Can do"

"You want to go anywhere in particular?"

"No can't think, we can go where you want to go"

"How about X?"

"I don't really like X-type food..."

"Well what about Y?"

"Hmmm nahhhh"

"Well where do you want to eat then - we can go anywhere you like."

"Wherever I'm not fussed, just... not X"

"What about Z?"

"No I don't feel like Z".

"Sigh, ffs"

"Why are you being mean to me? Stop shouting at meeeeeeeeeeeee" (N.B Not shouting).

I picked a fairly lazy example I know but it works well enough.

How about ending a relationship? What are the "deal breakers" for the relationship type you are advocating for?

Same for most other normal people. Cheating, destructive lying, a continual lack of attraction, drug issues etc.

What I would add though is that under TRP mindset it's my job to ensure that she would never want to cheat. There is no point for her to destructively lie to me, she doesn't worry but is aware that she needs to remain attractive to me and vice versa.

Taking charge isn't about overt control it's about leadership. BP man would watch his girl just drift away then walk out the door then wonder why it happened since he reads cosmo articles and then posts to /r/askwomen for advice.

How does your preferred relationship style account for differences in individuals?

It's not so much a preferred relationship style per se. I'm not sure I would identify it as that. For me I just notice what most women respond to positively versus what they say they want on paper.

On a scale of 1 to 10, with one being hideous and ten being beyond adorable, where do aardvarks rank?

10

ElderSign · 2014-01-06T07:26:29+00:00

I'd love to hear how RP relationships solve big disagreements, such as:

You are buying a house. After months of looking and realizing you'll never find something that's perfect, you still disagree on the best candidate. Maybe there's more debt than she's comfortable with, or she is doesn't like the neighborhood, or she feels the renovation is underbudgeted. He thinks it's a steal and you should grab it while you can.

Your child is having problems at school. You disagree as to the cause; maybe he thinks the child needs more help at home, she thinks a teacher is incompetent.

You feel strongly about not having your children in daycare, and it's been agreed upon from the start she'll be a SAHM. However, his business has been doing poorly from the start and you're in financial trouble. He thinks she should get a job so he doesn't need to give up his dream. She thinks he should be the responsible provider for now, especially seeing as his potential earnings would be significantly higher than hers, and pick up on the enterprise at a better time.

In all cases, you've exhausted what discussion can do. You profoundly disagree and there's no mutually satisfactory compromise. The choices are too major for either party to agree to a "we'll do this your way, something else my way".

I think that in an egalitarian relationship, there'll eventually a compromise that both parties are very unhappy with. Most likely there'll be no house, both parties pursue their own concerns alone, and there'll be a part-time job with continued poverty. Possibly also a big fight.

In a RP relationship... man has the final say, woman abides and lives with it; there'll be no resentment from her even if the decision doesn't work out?

roe_ · 2014-01-01T17:22:29+00:00

From the way I've seen relationships where the man is "in charge" described by TRP, they often come off sounding like equal relationships. For example, the man is the "leader", but a good leader takes his subordinate's opinions into account when making a decision...which sounds, for all intents and purposes, like an equal relationship where both partners trust each other and come to a mutual decision. The "final say" of the leading man is more of a ceremonial position than one of any practical purposes.

From my perspective, for my relationship, this is... pretty much exactly right.

(I'll decline to answer your questions, as I can't really improve on what's already been said, and I think we understand the basic idea of RP vs. egalitarian)

In my opinion, egalitarian relationships win almost by default because by they take into account the desires and needs of both individuals involved. Everything about the relationship is a conscious choice. A RP relationship starts from assumptions and imposes a hierarchy. An egalitarian relationship allows those in a relationship to form a hierarchy if both desire one, and abandon it if they don't. An egalitarian relationship flows naturally from the individuals involved while a RP relationship comes from outside.

Respectfully, it appears you're trying to "win by definition" - egalitarian means opposed to hierarchies. You can't have anything with a hierarchy and call it egalitarian.

So, what I'd say is, without a hierarchy in place, you fall prey to some general relationship failure modes - mutual submission deadlocks and autonomy gaps - situations where either no one wants to make a decision, so a decision doesn't get made, or situations where, because both partners feel a responsibility is shared, neither partner takes responsibility. Kind of a like a mini-version of those diffused responsibility experiments in psychology.

Having a hierarchical relationship opens you up to the failure mode of a power struggle - which is both partners trying to control overlapping responsibilities.

The ideal situation you describe (making conscious choices) will put you in one camp or the other - egalitarian or hierarchical - but the list is mutually exclusive and exhaustive so choose a camp you must.

My own experience in trying to run a shared-power egalitarian relationship is the failure states listed above - I wondered why the hell I was being blamed for a shared-responsibility problem. She probably wondered why the hell I wasn't stepping up and taking on the problem.

So I guess the ceremonial title if kind of meaningful to me.

The issue is (I think) that I find taking on responsibility energizing and my wife finds it draining. So her asking me to pick the movie to watch or whatever is an important signal - "I'm done making decisions now. Please take charge." It took me a while to realize this was going on.

pickup_sticks · 2014-01-01T03:19:10+00:00

This doesn't answer your question, but here's what I've heard from a lot of divorced women:

They want a guy who "wears the pants." If he doesn't, the woman is willing to wear the pants for a while, but it creates resentment and ultimately drains attraction.

Examples of wearing the pants:

Deciding where to go for dinner
Fixing a clogged sink, or calling the plumber if he can't fix it
Being sexually aggressive
Driving the car when you both go out together
Protecting her if ever in a dangerous situation

...and that's about it. Be decisive and deal with stressful shit when it comes up.

GuildedCasket · 2014-01-06T04:14:29+00:00

Jesus. Christ. This. Is long. I didn't realize how long it was. Sorry.

What does a relationship where the man is in charge look like?

From what I've garnered from TRP, the male's opinions are taken as correct by default, the guiding force in the relationship. The female may offer valuable insight to be considered (and indeed, it is considered beneficial to have a partner who can offer such insight), but the male's decisions are final. The female puts aside many of her concerns to ensure her partner is well taken care of and that his desires are advanced, that he is allowed to pursue his career and focus on it while the female takes care of his home life.

-What does an egalitarian relationship look like?

There is no person who has automatic authority when it comes to decision making. Decisions where both people have a strong, different opinion, are made through conversation and sometimes debate. Big decisions almost always require compromise, and the final decision is often either distilled through these little compromises or one person caves altogether.

How do they compare?

Assuming that both relationships have equally rational and loving participants, I think that the latter is harder and provides more opportunity for conflict. It can often lead to more strife in relationships because of said conflict. However, it can also be more fulfilling and provide more of a bonding experience - humans grow most with people that they have to trudge through conflict with. It also allows more freedom for the woman in particular if she is not suited for home life, so for many women today, it is a better relationship model for them because if they forced themselves to stay at home and defer most of their concerns they would grow resentful. I would also imagine it requires a specific relationship dynamic to work exceptionally well.

The relationship where the man is in charge will lead to less conflict because because there is no real debate - his word is law. Western society values freedom and autonomy, however, so this relationship model might not sit well with many females who identify with the desire for autonomy. Some people (let alone women) are not content with home life, or having a relationship with a decisive power imbalance. It could easily lead to resentment, marginalization, the female feeling like her opinions are meaningless since the male will always get his way in a stand off, if the female is not suited for the lifestyle... and in doing so, she will grow distant from the male and the relationship could fall.

Can you provide some examples of how a specific situation might be handled in each kind of relationship? How is one superior to the other?

Let's say that your old car recently broke down and a decision needs to be made whether to fix the car or to buy a new one. Both people have adequate knowledge of cars, but neither are experts.

Ideal egalitarian: There would be discussion on even footing about whether or not the car would be fixed. After debating the merits of each option, they still land on opposite ideas - the man wants to fix the car, the female wants to buy a new one. The female may point to finances and say that they obviously have enough money to afford a new one, and the male may retort that it would be better to save it if the old one can be fixed. The female may say that for all they know, fixing it could cost just as much - the male will say "okay then, let's take it to a shop and see how much it would cost to get it fixed". It would indeed cost less to fix the old car, so the female relents and agrees to get the old car fixed.

Ideal RP: There would be some discussion about whether or not to buy a new car or get the old one fixed, but eventually the male will settle on "let's get the old one fixed". The female will mention finances, but the male will say his decision is final. The female respects his ideas and defers to his experience, and they get the old car fixed without her proposing any more ideas.

The latter seems easier and more clean cut, but the former was perfectly cordial and reasonable. Now, in more realistic, dirty situations, the egalitarian relationship could have ended in a screaming fit, accusations, and a begrudging decision. The RP situation could have ended with the female feeling like her opinion was discarded and resentful that she was not allowed to have more of a say.

There are a million other ways that simple scenario could have played out, of course, but those are two idealized versions that I imagine would have happened in the respective relationships.

How about ending a relationship? What are the "deal breakers" for the relationship type you are advocating for?

Deal breakers? The same as any other, I imagine. Abuse, first off. A lack of respect from either party, a serious breach of trust that cannot be mended, a horrible sex life that leaves one party unfulfilled, etc. I'd imagine it'd be the same for a RP relationship as well.

How does your preferred relationship style account for differences in individuals?

My whole take on relationships are that it depends wholly on what the individuals want, so... yeah.

OH MY GOD THEY'RE ADORABLE but not as adorable as fluffy cats or dik diks so I'll say 8.

TFL; DR: One model is not better than the other, and I will stand by that. I have talked to people from TRP who seem to have lovely, working relationships that make both of them happy, and I personally know many people in egalitarian relationships who are committed, loving, and strong. Both can work. But it is predicated on knowing what kind of person you are and which works best for you and your partner.

Title	What are the differences between an egalitarian relationship and a RP one? Which is superior?
Author	KittyHamilton
Upvotes	6
Comments	20
Date	December 31, 2013 7:08 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1u3xgb/what_are_the_differences_between_an_egalitarian/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-are-the-differences-between-an-egalitarian.286423 https://theredarchive.com/post/286423

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