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Financial advice?

Terd_Ferguson69

June 1, 2015
3 upvotes
/r/TheRedPill
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Post Information
Title Financial advice?
Author

Terd_Ferguson69

Upvotes 3
Comments 37
Date June 1, 2015 5:37 PM UTC
(11 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/383u3v/financial_advice/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/financial-advice.33159
https://theredarchive.com/post/33159
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Comments

[–]1jb_trp4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

I'm following the Dave Ramsey plan. You should start by assessing where you're at now. Then he suggests following these "baby steps:"

  1. Have 1000 in an emergency fund
  2. Get completely out of debt.
  3. 3-6 month savings in emergency fund
  4. Invest for retirement
  5. Save for children's college fund
  6. Pay off home early
  7. Continue to build wealth

Now, depending on your goals in life, your steps might be a little different. You said you have 10k? Are you out of debt?

[–]Terd_Ferguson69[S] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

"You said you have 10k? Are you out of debt?"

Actually more like 12k. Exactly this. Student loan is killing me. $200/month payments and it's all interest. Still have $8500 left in principal on that. You suggest using a lot of my savings to pay that off?

[–]1jb_trp4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

You'll never save for retirement if you're paying so much in interest that you never get out of debt. You have 12k in savings but you're $8500 in debt and you're making only paying the minimum payments and not knocking that debt down? Seems foolish to throw $200/month away and not have it do anything.

How stable is your job? Not worried about losing it? I'd get out of debt (because the interest is killing you) as fast as possible. I would keep a few thousand in an emergency fund (in case your car breaks down or you lose you job or something) and pay off the debt. Then I'd use the money you were paying on your loan to build back up your emergency fund to 3-6 months of bills.

Isn't it going to be nice to not have any debt?

[–]Terd_Ferguson69[S] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

yeah it is very tempting to end the debt ASAP. But it will kill the majority if not all of my savings. Plus I doubt it would be so easy as "here's 8500 to pay it all off". They'll prob try to say "oh it'll be $15000 to pay it all off right now" or something like that, which of course I don't have. Idk I'll have to look more into this.

[–]1jb_trp1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Great, man. Yeah, debt is toxic. You're basically paying someone so you can owe them money. There might be an early payoff fee, but I doubt it will be several thousand dollars.

[–]BillC6180 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Payoff your debt. Then start putting money in the stock market. Just $400/mo. will turn into $500,000 in 30 years.

Learn the power of compound interest. Google compound interest calculator.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I would only pay off the SL if you can make a payment to principal, like with a mortgage. If all you are doing is paying the amortized amount in advance, don't bother. Incidentally, what is the rate on your loan?

[–]Terd_Ferguson69[S] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It's scary! It started off relatively low(maybe 5-6%). Then I was 1-2 days late on a couple payments some years back, not even b/c I didn't have the money, I just forgot about it(prob something lenders are counting on with kids fresh out of college). and it's been 45% interest ever since, so the principal goes nowhere. Fucking gross! I'll be advising the next generation to never take out loans. Learn from my mistakes.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

HOLY MOTHER OF GOD! If you can kill that bullshit with a payment to principal, fucking do it!

That said, there has to be a way to refi that. There's no reason for you to be paying that much (and 45% should be illegal under usury laws, unless there is some exception in the law of whichever state's law governs.)

[–]Metalaggeddon 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Put half into your emergency fund, if your job is secure and you know you can find another quickly, put the other half straight towards killing that debt. Every 5 months your paying that off your lost over a grand, which could be making your money grow instead.

[+]nemaxofredpill -11 points-10 points-9 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Good God. Follow this guy if you wanna be a bitch for the rest of your life. Where did you get this list...from a high school motivation poster?

[–]1jb_trp3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Say what you want, but before I took his class I was horrible with money. Now, I live within my means, pay all my bills, am getting out of debt and have a plan moving forward. And my life really doesn't feel that different. My parents are poor and never taught me to budget. They've worked all their lives and have zeros savings and will rely on the government for their crappy retirement in a shithole trailer. If this is what it takes to not end up like them, then I'll do it. I'm sure there are other paths, but this is working for me.

[–]nemaxofredpill 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

First idea would be to give it to me. Second idea: invest, start a business, do whatever you want. Your problem is that you are seeking validation from everyone on here. Stop. You know your options, now be a man and take a risk. Alphas take risks and sometimes fail. Betas never take the risk. They play it safe and just keep saving for nothing. Sounds like you hate your job so start your own business doing something you are passionate about. Like basket weaving....start a business and find a buyer that will buy that shit like a candy factory that sells candy in baskets during Easter. Like weed, start legally growing that shit. Invest in seeds, a warehouse, and irrigation...get high and own your hours. And that shit is always in demand. More so in the future as it takes hold in the medical field. Read about any successful business owner and he will tell you about two businesses that failed before his successful one.

[–]The_BeardedGentleman 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He would be hella lucky if it was only 2 that failed.

[–]Terd_Ferguson69[S] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

"Sounds like you hate your job"

Actually the job doesn't bother me too much, it just doesn't pay worth a shit. The boss man would prob never find a replacement as good or reliable. I could prob leverage that for more money.

[–]nemaxofredpill 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So take a risk and ask for a raise. Let him know that you love your job but you need more money to have a life a balanced life outside of work. Your problem is that you don't have abundance mentality with your job. You are scared to loose it. Take a risk and go ask. Worse case, he fires you. Most probable case, he says no and you go back to your desk. Least likely but preferable...he gives you a raise. Make sure to have a number when you go in there and not just blindly asking. Get stats from salary dot com.

[–]SenorArchibald3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

the subreddits r/personalfinance and r/financialindependence should be able to help you out

[–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire20 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Use some of the money to buy books on the subject.

The Intelligent Investor Techincal Analysis of Financial Markets The Discplined Trader

Once you have read these books cover to cover, things will start becoming a lot clearer. If you want to become rich, you're going to have to take calculated, educated risks with your money, one way or another.

[–] points points points 56 years ago | Copy Link

The Intelligent investor is good, though a bit too detailed for someone without any significant money to invest and who should just go with funds/ETFs.

Technical Analysis of Markets should not be on your reading list unless you: (1) work in finance; (2) have a huge amount of money to invest; (3) want to lose money.

[–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire20 points1 point2 points 11 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

Technical Analysis is the study of trading and price action of any given item that is being exchanged on an open market.

It can be used profitably to study anything that involves exchanging things of perceived value, which in the business world, is EVERYTHING. Almost every major company has people that study the prices of the things they buy to make the things they sell.

I mentioned the three books in conjunction so the individual can have a more complete picture of what is going on.

You're not going to "get rich" putting small amounts of money into a mutual fund or an ETF. One of the few ways to get rich, unfortunately, is to take educated, calculated risks upon learning and mastering the concepts mentioned in three books I described. C. Wright Mills wrote a book called The Power Elite and he concluded, upon study, that all the great fortunes were made by taking these calculated, risks.

Sure, you could start a business, but the odds are it will fail, since most businesses fail. Even Elon Musk assumed he would fail when he started his first business. And are most people cut out to even start a business? It's a lot of work and you need a mind like a supercomputer, which most people don't have.

[–]paviva 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I understand what you're saying, but I still think that was bad advice for the OP. The guy was talking of investing a measly 10k, all while he has 8k in debts, clearly not the kind of person who will gain anything in the stock market if he's by himself.

For most people, blindly investing in a fund/ETFs is the way to go, and will prevent the usual buying high/selling low.

Seriously, when you invest by yourself, you can hardly expect to beat Buffet's performance, ~ 20% yearly, while any dumb whole-market ETF will give you ~ 10% (i'm including the dividend return), no skills required. So when the guy has 2k to invest, it wont make any difference either way, and he's just safer to stick with the dumb strategy.

[–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire20 points1 point2 points 11 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

People beat 20% a year all the time. Buffet is limited by many factors, including the amounts of money he has to deploy, which drive prices up automatically upon entry, to all the coat-tail riders and their spies who try to front-run him. He's kind of forced into value-investing. Buffet himself has stated that it is easier to make a million out of a few thousand than make a billion out of a million. Small fish are often ignored, and can more maneuver more successfully. If Buffet wants to market order the fuck out of a position, it's going to have a serious impact on a stock price. Newbs with small positions can get in and out with relative ease, and the low commission rates make it even easier because you're punished less for mistakes.

I was suggesting that OP educate himself so he can learn to take more interesting risks. You can get rich trading shit penny stocks, small-caps, and mid-caps, that move up tremendous percentages in relatively short periods of time, whether it's a few hours to a few months. If you figure out it all works, you can turn 10K into 50K and then 50K into 250K and on upward, all within a few years.

You can theoretically do this with luck, but months to years of study and hard work give you the ability to do it with time and more hard work.

Edit: "Blindly" "investing," which is an oxymoron, is a bad idea. It's important to understand the hows and whys of making money as much as making money. There are people who start with less than 10K and become millionaires in a few years. It's boring, drudgerous, and emotionally draining, but it's better than climbing a corporate ladder, IMO.

[–]paviva 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Seriously, if you can beat 20% a year "all the time", you should really start a hedge fund, and make even more money investing other people's money -- and I'll even give you mine, if you guarantee that 20% return.

I've invested for quite a bit, and the most I've ever made was 600% a year with pure luck on a small amount of money I've invested speculatively. My average returns are certainly around 20% a year overall (excluding that amazing 600% return). Indeed, I've never met anyone who's made more than 30% years yearly for any more than a few years straight (once again, excluding jackpots due to pure luck).

Maybe I'm wrong, but you do sound a bit too assured and not all that experienced, so my point is just to warn you not to take positions risky enough to ruin you beyond recovery.

[–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire20 points1 point2 points 11 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

I've done well so far, but everyone is a genius in a bull-market. Like yourself, I've made some outsized returns on speculative plays. Of course, now those same plays are less appealing to me because I have more to lose.

According to what I've read, experienced traders will make 20% to 100% a year assuming they observe normal risk management rules regarding how much capital they allocate to a trade.

Of course, the more money you have at your disposal, the lower your return will be. It's hard to get large amounts of money in and out of an issue without attracting all kinds of attention. Also, more clients = more red tape, more distractions, more potential liability. People get rich running hedge funds taking 2% of the principal whether they win or lose, as well as some of the upside, if there is any. Strategies that work well with small amounts of money don't necessarily translate to large amounts of money. For example, you can piggy-back $500 to $2,000 onto some criminal gang's penny stock pump and dump play, but if you attempt to load $50,000, you'd probably torpedo the whole thing because they don't want to get dumped on.

I'm just saying, for someone who is probably young, with a small amount of money, they should study the game for a bit, read all the books, and then try to make good, potentially high-yielding trades. Then, once they have large pile, they switch to a different strategy.

Some people also just try and short those pumps, and grind out as many short trades as they can, but sometimes you can't get shares.

Frankly, the odds are against most people who play the game, but the guy was asking how to turn 10K into a lot of money and I know of no other way.

[–]wanderer7790 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Read Ben Graham. He will explain how to get rich slowly. As for how to get rich quickly, if you figure that out let me know.

[–][deleted] 0 points0 points0 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]unassumingusername70 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

There's nothing wrong with index funds, but I disagree about value investing. Remember that you're buying a stake in a real life company. Consider the actual specifics of the company's assets, liabilities, opportunities and weaknesses. You want a good deal on a good company. This is a ton to learn, so if you don't want to, just stick with low cost index funds like vanguard. Picking stocks yourself isn't something to half ass.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]fittitthroway0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I know in modern times shit is too fast moving, but why dont valuations matter?

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]fittitthroway0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

So the best thing is to invest in index funds like you said?

[–] points points points 56 years ago | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]fittitthroway0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Do the hedge fund guys get insider info? I am almost sure that politicians get insider info on stocks.

[–]paviva1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Disagree. Anyone who's ready to lose money and is willing to devote dozens of hours to research interesting unpopular stock can (slightly) beat the market.

However, given the amount of work it requires, it's rarely worth your time. If your hourly wage is low, you don't have enough money to invest for the little difference in interest to matter and if your hourly wage is high, you'll probably earn more doing your daily job than hunting for deals on the stock market.

But if you treat it as a hobby, it can be done.

[–]relationshipdownvote0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The only way to turn that $10k into a lot of money fairly quickly (5-10 years) is for you to put a lot of work into it. You just won't see those kinds of returns on an sort of investment you just buy and wait to cash in on unless you are VERY lucky. Do a lot of research, then gather up all the money you can and spend about half of it starting your own business, then spend pretty much every hour of the day you aren't asleep or at your day job doing work for your business.

[–]paviva1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

First, pay all your debts.

Second, take the habit to invest a fixed amount of money every month. This should be money you will not need for the next 20-30 years. If your investment horizon is less than 10 years, and you're investing just a few thousands bucks, don't bother, really.

If you can find some money you will forsake every month, buy 50% VIG and 50% VOO (Vanguard ETFs) every month, and never, ever, sell/change your investments before 2040. Never read any news about the stock market.

Unless you have the discipline to consider your monthly investments as a monthly loss, and don't care about your portfolio changing valuation, you will make stupid mistakes, and you will loose money.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

First, read this: I have $5. What is the best way to invest and grow my money?

Key excerpts:

"What would you do to earn money if all you had was five dollars and two hours? This is the assignment I gave students in one of my classes at Stanford University, as part of the Stanford Technology Ventures Program...

Here’s a clue: the teams that made the most money didn’t use the five dollars at all. They realized that focusing on the money actually framed the problem way too tightly. They understood that five dollars is essentially nothing and decided to reinterpret the problem more broadly: What can we do to make money if we start with absolutely nothing?

Here's what my friend did, as an example:

  • Tried a bunch of little things in his spare time. Started little businesses, tried importing stuff and reselling, tried to start a blog, did a site for ad traffic, etc. Basically he learned how things worked and how to make money. He didn't sleep much.
  • Did the bare minimum at work. This gave him more free time while giving him a steady salary. He even took calls for his side business at work. He got reprimanded but never got fired. I don't necessarily advocate this but it paid off for him. He was basically betting that his own business would be a winner compared to his 9-to-5 job.
  • Hired friends from work to do small jobs like design and artwork.
  • When he found a winner, he abandoned the lesser projects and put his resources into the winner.
  • Quit his full-time job and became a millionaire.
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