RP Philosophy: On why MGTOW, MRA, and anti-feminism are ultimately a bullshit waste of time

spacecowboyreturns · 2015-10-02T13:50:14+00:00

I can't blame any guys who go MGTOW. It's fucked up out there and some men may just want to keep their heads down. With false rape allegations, divorce rape and legalized cuckolding, who the hell can blame any man for simply saying "fuck this" and withdrawing himself from that system.

The worst part of the manosphere is the beating up on each other. All of them, MRA, TRP, MGTOW understand the current social order is fucked. I really wish we would respect other in their choices. I'd prefer a man to become a MRA, Red Piller, or MGTOW rather than maintaining status as a beta-bitch

ItIsMyPrivilege · 2015-10-02T05:17:49+00:00

As I've started telling my friends:

I'm not jaded or bitter or heartbroken. I simply accept reality. I don't accept anything else but the reality I see.

kiwi_rp · 2015-10-02T03:55:45+00:00

This is what I like about TRP. It's not about bitching and moaning about how shitty the world is. It's about accepting the way things are and working to get the best out of it.

[deleted] · 2015-10-02T08:45:25+00:00

MGTOWS love to salivate over trends in Japan for example, or opine about how irrational college educated women are outpacing the numbers of men who graduate on par with them, yet expect to have a bevy of rich males they can marry up to.

And while all of these are true, ultimately all this shit is a waste of time.

If you want a LTR or plates but currently have low SMV, then yes, don't go MGTOW (or at most go monk mode temporarily). You'd be better off bettering yourself instead of being angry with women and hoping that they'll fall on their faces sometime in the future.

However, there are people (and this is probably the minority of MGTOWers) who honestly don't care about chasing women, even if they are/would be great at it. For these people, MGTOW works. It's possible to construct a positive male identity that doesn't involve women.

porkmaster · 2015-10-02T13:37:23+00:00

They're not a "bullshit waste of time", but they're not going to get you laid either. You're comparing apples and oranges. The red pill is good for what it is. Anti feminism/men's rights are good for what they are. Be alpha as hell and get all the pussy you want, that won't help a thing when society and the legal system fuck you for being a man. Knock a girl up or get a false rape accusation and then see if men's rights is a waste of time...

The_Ralph · 2015-10-02T13:21:21+00:00

You have some good points to make, but I think it is useful to society in general to have certain groups of men doing certain things they're best at. Look at this like a bell curve. Men are scattered all along that bell curve, from beta on the left to alpha on the right. There is only so much room on the right. It's narrow. But that's the way it's supposed to be. Not every single man was meant to be alpha, it doesn't work this way. This is reality, too. But, other men serve other purposes. The MGTOWS, the MRAs, the anti-feminists all serve a purpose to turn the tide in our society's downward slide.

Speaking the truths of RP to all types of people will eventually help turn the tide. I hope.

And I understand that RP is supposed to be about "getting the pussy"; but I really disagree with this concept of it. That view to me is so self-limiting. Because if all RP truth is for is getting pussy, then you're putting that pussy right back up on that pedestal, and strategizing about it, and thinking about how to get it, and worrying if you're NOT getting it, or getting enough, or getting enough of enough quality. I've seen arguments in these threads over hb7 or hb8 and bemoaning the fact that one "hotter" got away; when point of fact if you look at women like that they're reduced to being a hole to fuck, literally, a human fleshlight; when I've seen others argue on these threads for the ideal LTR being Captain/First Mate strategy. So which is it? Get the most pussy, or go for the Captain/First Mate strategy? You can't do both. It doesn't work. This is why I think RP being this:

"TRP has always been and always will be about sexual selection strategy."

Is so limiting.

Again, boiling it all down to sexual selection strategy puts that pussy right back up on the pedestal. And it doesn't belong there.

faded_jester · 2015-10-02T05:55:47+00:00

What in the world is wrong with MRAs? A group that uses facts and logic to try and ensure a fair legal system for men can be achieved...and you consider them to be a waste of time? I'm glad they are fighting for my rights. They aren't the male equivalent of a modern feminist, making stupid demands, arguing from emotions, and doing everything in their power to shit on all women. Mostly they just want a fair chance in court for custody of their kids. But since that doesn't help you get pussy they must be losers right.

MortalSisyphus · Fri Oct 2 17:08:29 2015 UTC

I really should write a thread on this "waste of time" concept that people love to throw around. There is so much depth and philosophical meat behind the notion of a "waste of time." It implies that some actions or rewards are meaningful, while others are not, and the premises that underlie why you find one thing worthwhile and not another are quite interesting.

In either case, you should accept that different people value different things, and writing threads about why others are "wasting their time" is just "wasting your time."

thesufi · 2015-10-03T01:19:11+00:00

MGTOW here.

From my point of view, obsessing over pussy is the real waste of time. I'm not alpha, I'm beta. I'm never going to be alpha. If Red Pill has taught me anything its that you should see reality for what it is, not what you want it to be. The reality is I will always be a beta, and I don't have it in me to be alpha (no, I'm not one of those people who believe you can achieve anything if you put your mind to it. Some things are simply beyond some of us).

Male-female dynamics are really shitty if you are a beta. You are the bucks to the alpha's fucks. No thanks, I'm out. I can focus on things I can achieve, like career, travelling, hobbies, etc. rather than raising your kid and getting divorce-raped.

LastRevision · 2015-10-02T15:49:06+00:00

TRP will never be a ‘movement’. It will never gain mainstream popularity in the way you want it to.

When I joined TRP in 2013 there were 4,000 members talking about how women are children and "inner game." In a little over two years, those concepts have become dogma and there are 131,000 members plus. In this time we've seen fragments of concepts that were spoken about here permeate non-red pill websites and forums. Just a few years ago anti-Feminism seemed like crime think, and today it's gaining a tremendous amount of momentum at a startling pace.

So, while we won't see average mainstream people walking around saying, "I'm red pill, get a load of those hamsters," minor bits of Red Pill theory will begin to gain momentum in the main stream.... and I cannot predict how this might change things. We have never seen a propaganda machine like the Internet in world history- impossible to predict how it can affect things. Especially when there is a greater and greater need for things like "the red pill" as the sexual marketplace gets out of control.

And that brings me to Joe and Milo. What I found interesting about Joe and Milo is that Milo gets the red pill but has evolved to a more dark enlightenment perspective, while Joe is scratching the surface of the red pill.

Yes, men of this subreddit, do the best you can do- yes, improve, yes, learn game- hell, I even have a game blog (www.thrilltoparty.com), so YES, I believe in this shit... but, understand this about a lot of MGTOWs:

The MGTOW understands that the Sexual Marketplace gap is significant, and that there is life beyond chasing pussy.

The former is the easy part... the latter is difficult to see because your biological urges demand that pussy be at the forefront of your actions. We're animals who want to fuck. ...

But what if you can see beyond that? What if you can throw your middle fingers up at the bullshit marketplace and truly move on with things? Imagine what you could accomplish with that mindset? Maybe you could write a book, or become a painter, or master karate... No one is saying that it's either chase pussy like a player, OR porn/pizza/ps3... there is an inbetween, and if you can be honest with yourself at where you'd top out in the sexual marketplace, maybe the best you could ever do is an HB4 and as much as you want to scream and yell about "limiting beliefs," lets be honest here and say there are some guys who will never pull the stunner, maybe then you could then SEE BEYOND pussy and then feel truly FREE?

So while some MGTOW are pussies and whiners, I do respect the decision to say "FTW" given the truly horrific SMP.

[deleted] · 2015-10-02T11:25:26+00:00

So just like the feminist movement never became mainstream either?

morphite65 · 2015-10-02T03:39:39+00:00

It eventually moved from the concept that one can ‘mimick’ these qualities to the idea that it’s just easier and better to actually be those qualities instead.

If you just got here, read that again and think about it.

It eventually moved from the concept that one can ‘mimick’ these qualities to the idea that it’s just easier and better to actually be those qualities instead.

[deleted] · 2015-10-02T13:50:13+00:00

I agree with the assertion that Our Glorious Revolution will never occur, but we should still promote it for the simple fact that outliers broaden the middle.

In other words, the more omegas, MRAs, anti-feminists, and MGTOWs there are running around, the more it suits redpill interests. We have more room to differentiate, and do so comfortably. If you want to spin plates, go for it. If LTRs are more your thing, more power to you.

I'd argue that if you are using redpill effectively, no one is really going to pick up on it in a conscious way, because of how the bluepill characterizes it. If the West starts breeding even the slightest contingent of 'herbivore men' (after the Japanese), anyone who does will only see it in positive terms. Oh look, a man who is put together, with ambitions, and who doesn't take any shit? Even my underwear is getting wet and I only want to work or shoot some hoops with these guys.

I would argue further the best thing that we can do - taking notes from other groups - is to encourage these various factions to wedge further. We are already seeing a backlash toward feminism among educated women, fucking push it further. The end result may even be a group of empowered women who actually promote feminine qualities. You can even start to see this notion developing in the progressive shitsticks who slobber on post-modern ideological cock (search Zizek for example).

The next few years will be very beneficial to redpill men if they take the time to learn the culture, and subsequently, how to exploit it.

robertpaulsontitties · 2015-10-02T16:32:26+00:00

Here is good rhetorical question to pose to yourself: Have you or anyone you know personally ever had any impact on mass culture or mass politics? The answer is almost certainly no. You can really only effectively act on yourself and your social circle.

[deleted] · 2015-10-02T17:31:48+00:00

I agree with most things you said, but you seem to forget that history teaches us never to say "never". There have been instances of men opting out of society.

The US wont change anytime soon, but India will face MAJOR problems in the vicinity of 100 million men in surplus, due to infanticiding the girls.

If you are a farmer and depend on a large family, then a wife in rural India is your #1 priority. Women on the other hand are going through a national "rebellion" and "rejection of cultural norms".

Women are fleeing to cities and seeking education, in order to not depend on finding a good husband and at the same time looking at Western women.

To get back to these surplus men. They will never find a wife. NEVER. So either they grumpily die old and alone, OR they take to the streets.

Why do you think women are getting raped in such brutal ways in India? Youve got a sexually repressed traditionalist male population and a rebellious and emancipated women's movement. They are clashing spectacularly. Honor killings, rapes...

Things need a tipping point, a threshold if you will, in order to get going.

[deleted] · 2015-10-02T19:46:11+00:00

MGTOWS love to salivate over trends in Japan for example...

Why post about MGTOW, then post articles written by women?

You've clearly misunderstood MGTOW, MGTOW is all about redrawing from this society that is constantly against men and masculinity while retaining maximum pleasure for yourself, hence why many, myself not included, browse both as they are very compatible.

There is a lot of compatibility and overlap between us and them, talking shit, i.e "LOL MGTOW, those virgins and their dreams of Japanese sex bots", without actually understanding anything about the other party is what the rest of Reddit/The World does to us and I would hope that you as an endorsed poster would be above this.

-Enmity- · 2015-10-02T03:47:09+00:00

The irony of all of this is that by basing your whole ideology against feminism, you will never be in control. You are letting feminism influence your actions from the get go. This is why it's so important to stop wasting time reading "RP/BP Examples" or asking "Why would a woman do xyz?"

-Quotidian · 2015-10-02T09:10:59+00:00

give up being thirsty for pussy, to actually get pussy.

So crazy it just might work. You're right though; TRP's superiority to Men's Rights, PUA and MGTOW strategies lies in its authenticity. Those with the tenacity to rise will actually do so when they find this place. We tell men how to be men, how to get their shit together, and how to get the things they want. We tell them that it isn't going to be easy, that they'll work for it, and that the odds are stacked against them. And we tell them how to succeed in spite of that.

Rogan's right. Some of the best advice I've ever been given was by people who called me on my shit and reduced my ego to twitching, bloody meat--because I could take it. How many men, especially those of today, would be too triggered by their hurt feelings to hear the message, see the truth, and act on it?

We're men. We can't shrink away from the sharp point. We're wise to spot traps, know when our time would be wasted, and opt out of challenges with bullshit rewards, but there's still plenty of opportunity for the top 20%, and some of those in the uncanny valley beneath them. Get out there, do man shit, and get what you want--all you have to do is everything and anything it takes.

ScoobyGang · 2015-10-02T08:50:03+00:00

This is what always tickled me in some of my budding days. There always came a day, when I truly stopped giving a fuck about certain women I put on pedestals. I noticed, whenever I would encounter them, if they sensed this about me, they would almost inevitably hamster about me. Now, being an idiot, I would run back to them and shit would blow up again. However, in the process, I realized something about myself. First, a man who is truly his own, especially when it comes to a woman, is such a rarity that women will instantly bite on it. And, more importantly, there comes a moment, where you realize that others can only show you the way, and you have to walk the path, alone. But even though the moments are fleeting, it's better than the beta befores with pedestal girls ever were, it's fucking fantastic.

redpillbanana · 2015-10-02T16:02:36+00:00

The clip with Joe Rogan and Milo Yiannopoulos is great. That's the first time I've seen Milo just sit there speechless with no comeback - because he knows Joe is right.

Usually Milo is debating feminists and these feminists are wielding knives while Milo just mows them down with his logic minigun.

zephyrprime · 2015-10-02T18:30:26+00:00

"Social change on that scale for something so trivial has almost never happened in humanity."

Are you fucking kidding me? It's happened a ton of times. American Revolution. French revolution. Rise of Communism. The rise of ISIS. Feminism itself.

mechdemon · 2015-10-02T21:32:58+00:00

Getting pussy is too much work. I'm just going to work on my martial arts/physical training, smoke hookah, shoot guns, and play some video games.

_Zongo_ · 2015-10-02T14:27:16+00:00

I'm taking the bits that Rogan said right there and making it my alarm. I got tingles when he said that. Dude even says "WAKE UP SON, GET OUT OF BED AND GET YOUR SHIT IN ORDER! RISE!" fucking awesome. He is so on point at that part. I wish I had more role models like him.

oldredder · 2015-10-02T04:47:55+00:00

Idiot.

MGTOW is the reddest core of red pill.

but have also unlocked a powerful way to win the ultimate game of life. Use it.

That precise is what MGTOW is. The ultimate game. The game where victory is assured or nearly assured, as close as ever has been possible.

To think the red pill is only about sexual strategy is to bastardize it down to not even 2% of what the true red pill core really is - what it has been since long before reddit ever existed.

fingerthemoon · 2015-10-02T11:00:22+00:00

Sometimes I feel like life is some kind of sick joke because what I want more than anything else is that woman who makes me lose my shit and stumble all over myself, but I can't have her. In order to have her I must not want her that much and don't care whether or not I ever do.

It's like the love I want I can't have, and this desire is so deep and hard wired that I cant just write a new program, I must take the whole computer apart and rewire it. It's a flaw in the machine. Love is an illusion.

It's all good though because once I stop lamenting and actually do the work of disassembling and reassembling, the machine is way better than it was when shipped to me. The process is actually enjoyable as well if you have the right attitude.

NaughtyFred · 2015-10-02T14:28:53+00:00

Join asktrp or the chat fraternity if you need help

As a newbie who went to the IRC in their darkest hour and was told "good luck with your miserable shitty life" before being permabanned I'm pissing myself laughing at the "chat fraternity" being presented as an option :D

(did make me tougher though, so thanks fuckers!)

Rest of the post is a great read.

Red_August · 2015-10-02T14:57:13+00:00

Listened to the whole interview in the background, and it was quite entertaining stuff. Should note that it really sounds like Milo is packaging himself up for a future gig on Fox.

colinKaepernicksHat · 2015-10-02T18:58:12+00:00

take the blackpill

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tuf59ex-U0

notrustled · 2015-10-02T12:16:46+00:00

Spend less time on the internet complaining about how unfair feminism is.

Complaining on the internet is reserved for others. Don't be like them.

Social change on that scale for something so trivial has almost never happened in humanity.

Total equality never existed and SPOILER: it never will. The 80/20 rule is not gonna change. Women are gonna be women. Gain knowledge and act accordingly.

NeoreactionSafe · 2015-10-02T23:18:55+00:00

Don't worry about things staying like this forever because they won't.

Major changes happen. World wars are no joke and the conflicts are heating up as we speak.

We live at the very tail end of a cycle that has no future.

So be cheerful... things will not stay like this.

Now the bad news is that things could be much worse, so that's another reason to accept the present as "less bad" than it will become. (wars and all)

Kill the Beta and you are good. Beta dreams are 99% of the pain out there now, just realize that women are totally fucked up at the moment.

.

whammyface · 2015-10-02T04:50:33+00:00

I agree. Trp is like Republican Party. They have a good core and ruin it by their off the wall shit about religion or something which will keep me from voting for them. Trp is about your personal life. How do I make women want me? How can I start being a leader in by marriage again? What kind of behaviors can I expect from a woman in a relationship?... This kind of information is spot-on and valuable. This is the only value of Trp, the rest is white noise that's gets off what's valuable. When I get on here and see headlines like "all single mothers are scumbags" I think no wonder people think Trp is garbage. I was raised by a single mom who got us away from our abusive, criminal, drug/alcohol addicted, shit show of a father. She worked 2 jobs and sacrificed everything for us. I remember being a kid and hearing my mom crying in her room all the time because she was so unhappy but soldiered on for us. She gave me freedom and encouraged me to be my own man and earn confidence. I went from a nothing, white trash, poor kid to a bad ass, muscle bound, stud of a man that earned a D1 baseball scholarship and a masters degree... And I owe a big chunk of that to my amazing mom. She didn't ride the CC and bring countless men through the door and steer down some wrong path through life. So when Trp bashes on single moms I take it personally, and someone said that to my face they better be ready to fight. I am not just my own man... I am the ONLY man in the world. So I get tired of the whining about shit like rape culture and feminism because none those things will ever affect me because I won't let them. You think that regret doesn't equal rape then don't be the kind of guy that a girl would regret, don't let it affect you person

[deleted] · 2015-10-02T11:34:09+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	RP Philosophy: On why MGTOW, MRA, and anti-feminism are ultimately a bullshit waste of time
Author	OmegaRed_Pill
Upvotes	107
Comments	79
Date	October 2, 2015 3:37 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/3n6sjs/rp_philosophy_on_why_mgtow_mra_and_antifeminism/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/rp-philosophy-on-why-mgtow-mra-and-anti-feminism.36840 https://theredarchive.com/post/36840

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