Can someone explain why some pre-nups get thrown out in court?

un-affiliated · 2013-07-25T23:26:06+00:00

Multiple reasons.

Signed it under duress: If you spring the prenup on her after all the guests were invited and money was put down, the judge will rule that she was pressured into it. It will be decided that outside circumstances such as public embarrassment forced her to sign something that she would not have signed if she knew of the pre-nup before the wedding was announced.

Did not get equal consideration: Thrown out because the prenup was too harsh on the woman. If you draw up a prenup that says she gets nothing no matter when the divorce happens and it doesn't matter if you cheated and then divorced her, it will get thrown out. The judge will rule that no one would sign a contract that one-sided if properly advised. Knowing she would get half without a prenup, why would she agree to zero? If you want to avoid this, make sure that she gets a "fair" deal. How much she gets should escalate the longer the marriage lasts. It shouldn't drop her from a millionaire to near poverty.

Did not have unbiased representation: This will happen if your wife had no lawyer or she simply listened to yours. The judge will rule that your lawyer was looking out for you only and wasn't in position to correctly advise your wife. To avoid this, make sure she gets her own lawyer who is not connected to you at all.

It addresses areas that it shouldn't: You cannot address children in the pre-nup. Children are a third party and since child support is theoretically for them, the mom doesn't have the right to sign away their paycheck from you. Anything addressing child support will be thrown out by the judge.

And there's more. Those are the major ones, though. For best results, draw up the prenup before you officially announce the engagement, make sure you both have good lawyers, make sure that it appears like a fair deal to both sides, and pattern it off of pre-nups that have worked in your state in the past.

Kronouranos · 2013-07-25T22:04:37+00:00

Basically, they're thrown out because the wife claims she was under pressure to sign it. They argue that since the wedding date is set, they are too stressed by the wedding and don't have time to really go through it.

It's kind of like when a murdered argues he is insane in order to avoid prison. It's complete bullshit, but it gets pre-nups thrown out far too often.

It's not so much what's on the pre-nup, but how you go about it. Do it early in the engagement, and video-record the bride, having her say she is not stressed as she signs it. It's not a 100% fix, but it's a step in the right direction.

A 100% fix is to not get married.

aman679 · 2013-07-26T00:43:12+00:00

A few I have also heard are:

1) The pre-nup was in English which is my second language so I didn't understand what I was signing (even though she spoke perfect English, she was born in Japan and the judge threw out the entire pre-nup because of this)

2) If the pre-nup is iron clad AND you follow all advice here, there are still other tactics to screw with you. She can hire an effective lawyer to represent her in the divorce and basically make near endless requests of you and your (likely $300 an hour) lawyer to be engaged for months on end answering her requests, disclosures, etc. This is just the sad state of American courts in general, but basically she can make it so painful for you even if your ducks are in a row that it would be way cheaper / easier to settle for something more in her favor instead of the terms in the pre-nup. So be careful, even a perfect pre-nup can end up costing you a lot in time, money, and stress. As others say, the only real protection is to not get married

The_PUA_Punanny · 2013-07-26T01:58:01+00:00

Prenup or not, why even risk marriage? What is to be gained?

When does the expectation of mutual benefit in marriage go seriously wrong in the west? It goes wrong as soon as the “I Dos” are said, or very shortly thereafter. Why is this so? Because you, the man have just entered into a contract with the state where you have promised that you will provide everything to your bride, and where the bride has promised nothing. By the way, the full weight of the law and public opinion will support her stripping you of every thing you have, including your children, and most of what you will ever make in the future, when (not if) she decides to dump you. Hence, once you enter into the contract you have nothing left to offer her. Everything you have, or will have, is already hers. Seem like a harsh statement? I thought so too, the first time I heard it, during an argument with my first wife towards the end of our marriage. She asked me the eternal female question, “What do you do for me?” (i.e. what benefit do I get from associating with you?) I responded, “I pay all your expenses. I feed, clothe, and house you. And, I am paying for your college tuition.” She told me that all the money I earned was her money and that if she let me have any of it that was pure charity on her part, so I was doing nothing for her. I thought this was unduly harsh. The divorce courts showed me that it was pretty much just a statement of fact. The wife has it all, and can make her part of the marriage contract, the portion where she is to provide you with companionship, comfort, loyalty, sex, etc., null and void at any time while keeping everything you have/had/will ever have. She has no need to associate with you further once you are married (see corollary 2).

http://www.stickmanweekly.com/ReadersSubmissions2009/reader5546.htm

The payoff is in the divorce. There's no incentive to not divorce except when the husband is greatly increasing assets (e.g. an athlete on a guaranteed contract for N years). Once peak income passes, time to liquidate!

Clauderoughly · 2013-07-25T22:09:35+00:00

I have experience in "ignoring" prenups. I had a prenup made up for my marriage and when we got divorced, she did end up with a tiny percentage.

Why? Because I didn't need to make her destitute. I didn't need the money (I will make at least 2-3x what I paid her this month alone) and it was worth it to finalize the divorce ASAP.

However, it was interesting to see them try and weasel their way into throwing it out. "I was coerced!" "He said he wouldn't marry me if I didn't sign the prenup!!!"

lol.

random_reddit_accoun · 2013-07-25T22:13:27+00:00

From what I understand, women have incentives to lie in court and put the burden of proof on the man. There are things you can't prove you didn't do so hence any entry-level lawyer can get a prenup thrown out.

Exactly_what_I_think · 2013-07-25T22:52:06+00:00

No, don't be an idiot and get married and it won't matter.

ChaoticParadox · 2013-07-25T23:12:48+00:00

Prenups are meaningless if they don't hold up in court. Fuck marriage lol.

2013-07-26T01:57:03+00:00

My old man is a lawyer and about to retire. He refuses to do prenups as they aren't worth the paper they are written on. Has said so for years. He has been divorced twice also so knows how it works. His advice is to not get married or even move in.

Chavagnatze · 2013-07-26T03:42:00+00:00

The prenup is a contract. Contracts have a few rules inorder for them not to be void ab initio. Most of the time the woman will claim that she was held under some forms of pressure a.k.a. threat, duress, and coercion.

You can see where this leads, especially if there is a marriage license (contract with the state :) ) in the mix. Courts are kind of corrupt and since everyone there is in the barrister club, including the judge, they have the goal of making as much finance out of the both of you as possible. This means that they will try to establish an obligation on the man. (alimony, child support, fingers, toes, arms, legs... When prenup is nullified they default to the hidden terms of the marriage liscense and state codes) If you slip up, they stand to make more finance off of you which is why they do that. It's just good chivalry isn't it?

world_war_me · 2013-07-26T03:08:49+00:00

I've always wondered about this too. Great question.

Title	Can someone explain why some pre-nups get thrown out in court?
Author	thewrightstuff88
Upvotes	17
Comments	44
Date	July 25, 2013 9:41 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1j20nb/can_someone_explain_why_some_prenups_get_thrown/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/can-someone-explain-why-some-pre-nups-get-thrown.5840 https://theredarchive.com/post/5840

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