The Gospel and White Privilege

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May 18, 2020
6 upvotes

Stats

  • body fat: 15%, Height: 6'2", weight: 190, lifts: Gym opens again next week = woot!, age: 26
  • Reading: All the sidebar
  • Finances: Current job: teacher, income quality: 51k/year, future prospect: Hopefully seminary in 5 years, debt issues: hopefully debt free in 4 years
  • Spiritual: Fallen off spiritually the last few weeks. Currently resetting my schedule with spiritual disciplines

Context

I work in a predominately black school, on a predominantly black team. Last week our team leader opened up the floor to discuss the recent Ahmaud Arbery shooting. The boundaries of the conversation were pretty vague. I'm still not really sure what we were supposed to be talking about. Some were speaking about how they felt about the shooting, others were discussing their experience as a black person in 2020 America, still others talked about how this would be perceived through the eyes of our students.

I remained silent throughout this whole conversation, and my silence was not well received by the group. Towards the end of the conversation, many people made covert accusations that if you're not speaking about this event then you are complicit in institutional racism. I was the only person who didn't speak, so you can see the new reputation I've gained. Essentially, if I enter into the conversation then I had better say exactly what they want to hear. If I'm silent, then I'm thinking exactly what they don't want to hear.

Advice/Resources?

The reason I didn't speak is that I genuinely do not have an informed, succinct stance on the issues of white privilege and systemic racism. Not that I don't have strong opinions. I do, and most of them agree with Ben Shapiro's line of thinking. However, I do not possess a nuanced approach when entering into these conversations that has a gospel impact.

Any advice on how to approach future conversations would be great. (I was also covertly threatened that if I don't speak in the future, I could lose my job.)

Also, if you know of any resources, that would welcomed as well!

Thanks


Post Information
Title The Gospel and White Privilege
Author Continuous-Metanoia
Upvotes 6
Comments 37
Date 18 May 2020 11:46 PM UTC (11 months ago)
Subreddit askRPC
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/667790
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askRPC/comments/gmd7x4/the_gospel_and_white_privilege/
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Comments

[–]OrlandoTheAxe14 points15 points  (15 children) | Copy

Only white people need to be ashamed of their race and ancestry. It is socially abhorrent to take pride in European ethnicity and to want to preserve it. What a privilege it must be to be blamed for all of our nations problems! How fortunate are we that our ethnicity is a mark against us for scholarships, elected offices, and even jobs! If you're white and you're not living in a constant state of shame and penitence for something you had no part in, you're part of the problem. I could go on, but here's my point:

White privilege is a lie used to create a scapegoat, increase division, and secure voting districts. It is a collection of double standards and falsehoods peddled by the media and "activists." You'll see it spun all kinds of different ways, but when it comes down to it, they want you and your children disenfranchised, replaced, and exterminated.

Keep your head down if you must, but don't buy into the lie.

[–]Wonko_the_Sane7710 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

"white privilege" doesn't exist. You did well to say nothing. Anything else enters their narrative and frame which is a no win situation. If that's the type of educational environment your working in I'd advise to keep an eye out for work elsewhere.

[–]Continuous-Metanoia[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I disagree that entering into a conversation with false premises is entering into their frame.

What would you say to Jesus, who constantly engaged with those who were trying to trap him with their world view i.e. the saduucees and their question of the resurrection.

Again, I'm not looking to remain silent. I'm looking for beneficial ways to engage with these people, who are lost and in need of truth spoken in love.

[–]Praexology5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

If anyone asks why you don't say anything, a simple "I need to think on some of this further, but in the meantime, what are your thoughts?" should do.

[–]OsmiumZulu9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

“Do not engage an enemy more powerful than you. And if it is unavoidable and you do have to engage, then make sure you engage it on your terms, not on your enemy’s terms.” – Sun Tzu

“He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight.” – Sun Tzu

[–]UpTanks3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Here's a piece of advice I should've followed a long time ago: never give in to the mob. It never ends well, no matter the circumstance and even when you agree with what they're saying.

If you speak when forced to/ against your will in coercive situations like this (covertly or overtly), you're breaking frame and trust me: you'll feel like piss.

I was also covertly threatened that if I don't speak in the future, I could lose my job.

If this happened in Aus, that guy would be the one threatened with losing his job lol. Don't lose sight of how badly and immaturely these people are behaving.

[–]Deep_Strength7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

Something like this could work:

"Yes, there is still injustice in the world today especially in America. Although I'm not black, I am a Christian and one of Jesus' sayings really resonates with me that I try to live out: Love God and love your neighbor as yourself. Although I'm not perfect at it, I try to love everyone the way Jesus taught"

In general, it acknowledges there are injustices still happening which is true. It doesn't speak to any particular situation though which is a good thing. There are injustices done to hispanics, asians and even whites. Most crime in American is black on black violence. Very few people talk about this, but they are injustices.

Then you can bring up a value that everyone almost universally agrees on: love your neighbor as yourself (or the more common form: "treat others the way you want to be treated") to communicate that this is how you personally want to live regardless of anyone's skin color. You can parlay that into a gospel message.

[–]IsAllThisReal2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is a way to avoid actually answering the question, because we all well know at this point that if you present an opinion that does not agree with the current marxist postmodernist view of the power struggle between the classes, you are an oppressor, and will be removed either by complaints, boycotting, or outright hostility.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

It only makes sense that you didn't speak. And also hopefully they were making a blanket statement, I've heard that statement being used alot during black rights speech's, "if you don't speak, you're complicit." I don't think it was personal at all and if you were to speak everyone would have thought, "what's this white boy have to say."

[–]Willow-girl-2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy

The phrase, "I'm here to listen and learn" is your friend!

[–]IsAllThisReal1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

You could also say "my opinion is worthless, please let me lick your boots' for the same effect.

[–]Willow-girl1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

There are times when it pays to be diplomatic. Why reveal your position if there is nothing to be gained from it? Something, something wise serpents, innocent doves ...

[–]ENTPunisher6 points7 points  (11 children) | Copy

Woo wooo let's smash institutional racism everybody!

"A thief with a criminal record who was snooping around construction sites resisted a legal citizen's arrest conducted by witnesses who allege he stole from them, and then tried to brawl unsuccessfully with the tail end of a shotgun."

Did I do it right?

You were smart to keep your mouth shut.

[–]IsAllThisReal1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy

I don't believe that Arbury should have been shot, as the guys in the truck should not have chased him in the first place with guns. I don't believe there is evidence of him committing a crime, until he charged the guy with the gun. And even if there were, vigilante justice is not a marker of an orderly society. Put up motion-activated cameras and collect evidence.

That said, black males between 18 and 40 are something like 4% of the population and commit around 50% of the violent crime. There needs to be substantive and radical changes in the black community or they will always live in poverty and crime-infested areas.

[–]ENTPunisher1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy

It's not vigilante justice... They didn't drive up and shoot him. They tried to legally detain him and bring him to the authorities, and then he lunged for their weapon.

[–]IsAllThisReal1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy

If I were going for a run and had not committed a crime (which he may or may not have), and two dudes rolled up in a pickup truck with shotguns, I would probably be looking to find a way to either disarm them or escape. Can you honestly say you would be fine with guys rolling up on you with shotguns? Especially when his suspected crime was... maybe trespassing, maybe conspiracy to commit robbery. Also, legally detaining someone can very quickly become unlawful imprisonment, or even forceful kidnapping, so I don't think the Canadian statute on citizens arrest is all that appropriate.

I'm curious about the context, I wonder if there had been robberies, reported or not, and they just assumed he was the guy.

[–]ENTPunisher1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

My bad regarding the Canadian link, but citizens arrest is part of English common law and is basically the same deal here in the US. Some states have codified it into their penal code but other's haven't and it's still legal.

If I were going for a run and had not committed a crime (which he may or may not have), and two dudes rolled up in a pickup truck with shotguns, I would probably be looking to find a way to either disarm them or escape. Can you honestly say you would be fine with guys rolling up on you with shotguns?

What do you think the police do?

Also, legally detaining someone can very quickly become unlawful imprisonment, or even forceful kidnapping

...this is true for police officers as well.

I'm curious about the context, I wonder if there had been robberies, reported or not, and they just assumed he was the guy.

This is a pretty good analysis of the facts

[–]IsAllThisReal0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

What do you think the police do?

They're the police, they have body cameras, training, identifying uniforms, they've promised to 'protect and serve' and uphold your constitutional rights, and they have a hierarchy of accountability, ... they're not two fat dudes in a pickup truck with shotguns. Completely ridiculous analogy.

[–]ENTPunisher1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

So they have cute matching costumes and cameras that they turn off when they're about to abuse their power? That somehow makes them more qualified?

Most of the time cops are absolutely two fat dudes with shotguns. Have you seen how obese some of them are?

27.7% of US workers are obese.

40.7% of police officers, firefighters, and security guards are obese.

http://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797(13)00617-X/fulltext

The officer/firefighter/guard is fatter than the average civilian.

[–]IsAllThisReal1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

You're arguing that complying with a random citizen, allowing them to detain you by force with weapons, is the same as complying with the police, whose explicit job it is to detain you. That is absurd and delusional and realy discredits your intellectual honesty in this discussion.

[–]ENTPunisher1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Peak Reddit culture, calling other people intellectually dishonest while being totally oblivious on a given subject.

Let's set aside the fact that your entire argument was just murdered:

  • "They have body cameras" <-Civilians own cameras too, and that's where we got our evidence from the Arbery case
  • "Training!" <-So do a lot of civilians, including the defendants.
  • "Uniforms" <- So does batman.
  • "They swore to protect and serve" <- Lol, you mean the thing that God said we shouldn't do?
  • and uphold your constitutional rights <- Yes, cops, known for upholding our constitutional rights.
  • Hierarchy of accountability <- They're both accountable to the law. Police departments do more to prevent their officers from being held accountable than they do to enforce accountability.

And of course if you paid any attention to the facts of the case, you'd know that the two people charged with killing Ahmaud Arbery had a combined 60 years of experience as cops themselves.

In any event, you sound like a statist. Citizens' arrests are legal. Open carrying a shotgun in Georgia is not only legal, but required.

[–]IsAllThisReal0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

OK next time you are out walking I am going to roll up with a shotgun and tell you to get on the ground, I suspect you of a crime. I'm sure everyone will be totally cool with that. That is the dumbest logic I have ever heard, I can't believe you would even spout that kind of nonsense.

Aubury did not know he was being filmed, did not know the people cutting him off in a truck with a shotgun had law enforcement training, and had no idea of their intention other than armed aggression against him. THAT IS WHY COPS HAVE UNIFORMS and immediately identify themselves, to identify them as people with training, accountability, and civil authority. You sound exactly like you are going to argue 'all cops be raycis and sheiiit'. Cops do uphold your constitutional rights. I'm sure your favorite anecdote proves this wrong.

I never argued a citizens arrest is illegal. I never argued open carrying a shotgun is illegal. I never even argued that what they did was wrong. You're arguing against straw men. My argument is that if you roll up on on a random person with guns, and no evidence he has committed a crime and unlawfully detain him (which it turned out to be, by the way), expecting to be complied with in the same way a police officer would is retarded.

Do you really believe that it is un-biblical for christians to become doctor, lawyers, or police officers?



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