~ archived since 2018 ~

A Word to New Users

Continuous-Metanoia

December 3, 2020

40 upvotes

You Need to Lurk

I introduced a friend of mine to this sub 6 months ago and he has made a total of maybe 5 comments. -- And yet he checks RPC everyday. Is he without troubles that he needs Godly counsel on? Nope. Does he have authentic insights that would edify this body of Christ? Yup.

My first piece of advice to him was to lurk for a month at least, read the sidebar and then if he felt compelled to post, then he should. I've been encouraging him to make a post on how TULIP correlates to Red Pill, but he won't budge. Why? He's STFUing. He's learning all the nuances of this sub, how it operates and the differing world views amongst all of the moderators. I commend him for it.

I've been seeing a pattern of new users who just victim puke their situation or spout off their outlandish ideas, but have no idea about the aforementioned nuances of this sub. You need to learn the basics first before any effective counsel can be applied to your situation/any coherent dialogue can take place. Mission, lift, fellowship, seek God in prayer and His Word...Rinse and Repeat.

When it comes time for my friend to seek advice or to make that edifying post, he will be starting from the solid foundation which the sidebar, moderator comments, and youtube discussions have already laid out. From there, we will be able to join in and have a productive conversation.

"The heart of the righteous studies how to answer, But the mouth of the wicked pours forth evil." - Proverbs 15:28

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Post Information

Title	A Word to New Users
Author	Continuous-Metanoia
Upvotes	40
Comments	53
Date	December 3, 2020 10:49 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RPChristians
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RPChristians/comments/k688k1/a_word_to_new_users/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RPChristians/a-word-to-new-users.1193439 https://theredarchive.com/post/1193439

Comments

[–]LittleProfessional5 8 points9 points10 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Nodeal_reddit 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]LittleProfessional5 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Continuous-Metanoia3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Nodeal_reddit 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]WorldlinessComplex36 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]WhereProgressIsMade 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

I think every man's first scrape with any red pill content is sobering.

The thing that woke me up about 18 years ago was a book on Christian marriage I had bought. I was single, but thought reading some marriage books would help prepare me. A couple others I had read were Love & Respect and His Needs Her Needs. They have their flaws but were at least pretty balanced in their approach and fair, so I expected this one to be too.

Well, the pastor wrote the first half of it for husbands and it was full of all kinds of things husbands should do for the wives. Ok. I wonder what the wives are supposed to do. His wife wrote the half for women but there was absolutely nothing about any kind of effort that a wife should put into marriage. It was all about stuff she should be expecting her husband to do and how to get him to do it. Barf. If that was marriage, I wanted nothing to do with it.

Anyway, that book was the start of the lid coming off of Pandora's box for me. There was no redpill back then, but I at least was able to find good advice written by men who paid attention to how women acted and not what women say. I made sure to dump all women that showed signs of acting like that pastor's wife.

[–]husky-viper 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]WhereProgressIsMade 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Facekick36 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (43 children) | Copy Link

[–]OsmiumZuluMod | Trapasaurus Rex 🦖 | Married 8y 11 points12 points13 points 5 years ago (42 children) | Copy Link

TULIP is an acronym that provides a shorthand summation of what are known as the "Doctrines of Grace" popular among Reformed / Calvinist believers.

T = Total Depravity (meaning all men everywhere are sinful by nature)

U = Unconditional Election (those that are saved are not saved based on meeting some condition or criteria, but merely by grace)

L = Limit Atonement (Sometimes called "definite atonement" or "particular redemption", this essentially means that Christ shed His blood as an atoning sacrifice efficaciously and saved those that he died for to the uttermost. This point is generally the one that gets the most push back, but truly all non-universalists (everyone is saved) believe in a limited atonement; either in sufficiency or scope. To say "Christ died for everyone" but doesn't save everyone limits the sufficiency of the atonement since something else, typically belief, is required before salvation is applied. Saying, "Christ died for some, but secured their salvation" limits the scope, but upholds that Christ's atoning work was utterly sufficient to accomplish their salvation, nothing else is needed.)

I = Irresistible Grace (Those that God elects will be saved and this cannot fail because Christ came to accomplish this very purpose and, being God, cannot fail: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day" - John 6:44)

P = Perseverance of the Saints (God does not fail to save his elect, not because they are always obedient and faithful, but because He guarantees it and cannot fail "And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ." - Philippians 1:6)

u/TheChristianAlpha thought you might find this interesting.

[–]TheChristianAlphaEndorsed | On a Mission | IG: @TheChristianAlpha 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]arjungmenon -4 points-3 points-2 points 5 years ago* (40 children) | Copy Link

I’m not a Calvinist or Presbyterian, but I went to Tim Keller’s church (Redeemer) and affiliated churches for a long time, so I have some thoughts. (I’d say I’m pretty non-denominational at the moment, maybe leaning slightly pentecostal, but that’s it.)

I feel like TULIP is a bit of dangerous theology, if someone internalizes it completely.

I think the T and L are on point, and 100% correct. But:

Some people that believe in the P concept could use it as a license to sin. Or at least, not be as on-guard against sim. Romans 6:1 comes to mind.
The U and I ideas could discourage people from evangelizing, or make ethem to take a very laid-back nonchalant approach to it.

And honestly TULIP isn’t the worst of Calvin’s theology; pre-destination (which by its very definition negates free will) would probably take the crown for the worst piece of theology ever. Pre-destination possibly encourages people to shirk away from agency over life and life choices.

Overall, I’d rate Calvin’s theology as being close to as damaging / harmful (and potentially putting people on a path to self-defeating behaviors) as a blue-pilled life philosophy might be.

[–]R3dTul1p 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago* (36 children) | Copy Link

First off, I don't think you truly understand the implications of TULIP if that's your stance.

Do many people take TULIP, the OSAS aspect and run with it? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean that they have internalized it #correctly. Just as many Arminians fall short in their own application.

As Os mentioned, Philippians 1:6 shows that God will complete a good work within us. That means that our perseverance is and steadfastness towards good works is attributed to God, and indicates that we are regenerate. I don't see anywhere in there that leaves us license to sin- though I concede many people that hold the OSAS mentality fail to work out their salvation through fear and trembling. We are to judge ourselves based on the fruit we produce, and if we are not producing good fruit, then that is an indication that we are not persevering.

To your point of #I and #U, all I can say is once again, that's if you haven't internalized TULIP completely or correctly. God has chosen us to participate in the preaching of the gospel and raising up disciples- and the fact that he has predestined some makes no difference- he is going to use us, and in actuality, the #I is what's going to make us desire to do so so fervently and excitedly.

Finally, predestination literally is the U in TULIP, as it is clearly stating that God selects his chosen people without merit to their own station- so you can't really separate predestination from TULIP since TULIP is key to forming soteriology. As for your assertion that predestination negates free will, having that view clearly reveals that you don't actually think the #T is on point as you so profess. Hyper-Calvinists deny free will, but an orthodox Calvinist affirms that all men have wills and are free to choose whatever they want. The catch is that their wills are enslaved to their desires, so a man will never willingly choose to be saved unless his eyes have been opened.

To your final words, pretty much any worldview can be damaging and harmful when people choose not to truly understand what is being claimed. There are plenty of men who take RP and run with very poor application- but that does not mean that the fundamentals of it are false. So based on your logic we should all just abandon RP because of the few who use it in the wrong manner.

Maybe this supposed post that will one day happen on TULIP will draw some light to your concerns- but until then, I just figured I'd throw out my 2 cents.

[–][deleted] 5 years ago* (35 children) | Copy Link

[–]Continuous-Metanoia1 points 5 years ago [recovered] (29 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link

[–]R3dTul1p 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

Here lies the flaw in your argument. Do signs and wonders serve as a testimony to the unbeliever? Absolutely, but when you make such claims, you are actually *taking away* power from the gospel.

Why? Because you're essentially saying that signs and wonders are *required* to accompany the presentation of the gospel in order for the unbeliever to believe.

But the gospel is as empowered by the Holy Spirit in its own right, and so does not *require* signs and wonders to do an amazing work. God can choose to perform great wonders for His glory, that is to be sure, but it is not a requirement for the gospel to spread--and to say that it does takes away from its power--the exact opposite of what you claim.

Someone could be convicted in John Macarthur's sermon and come to Christ just as well as someone who experienced a healing miracle--God reveals Christ to us in different ways, and so to deny John MacArthur's message, despite it being the gospel, is to deny the power to the gospel itself.

[–][deleted] 5 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]R3dTul1p 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]Continuous-Metanoia1 points 5 years ago* [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link

2 things:

First,

you can bet 100% that they are going to believe

That is quite a bold gauranette. Especially in light of Jesus' earthly ministry. Have you not read when Jesus cast out the demon-possessed man in Gerasenes? How did the people react when they witnessed such an awesome display of power over the spirit world by the Messiah Himself? There are numerous accounts in the gospels where Jesus performs miracles amongst crowds who still continue in unbelief, even after seeing the Hand of God(quite literally) with their own eyes. Cleary the witnessing of miracles is not a "100%" guarantee of belief. Read up on Exodus if you still have any doubt on this; lots of miracles, lots of unbelief.

Which brings me to my second point. What are the intentions of God, when he allows those in His service to perform miracles, signs and wonders?

You have said that it is for unbelievers. You have answered correctly. However, along with your answer, you have included the context of North America. Therefore, your answer has become invalid.

Again, I agree with you that signs, miracles and wonders are for unbelievers, but within the right regional context. Namely, locations where the Word of God has not been long established. i.e. Islamic countries, Asia and parts of Africa.

The United States was essentially founded upon the gospel in 1620 and later those same values were clearly translated into our founding documents. Jesus has permeated the very fabric of this nation for over 400 years and we have benefited greatly from it. Therefore, we are without excuse. The judgement will be severe for those who are born in America and remain in unbelief.

But for countries who have not been afforded such an amazing historical blessing, signs, miracles and wonders are necessary. These people do not have an established understanding of the character God and His message, because they do not have 4 bibles sitting in there home(unlike the average American household). Miracles are necessary to confirm and establish the Word of God within a region of unbelievers, but once the Word has been established, it is the Word that holds the power in calling sinners to repentance.

[–][deleted] 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Continuous-Metanoia1 points 5 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

All of Scripture testifies to the identity of Christ. Therefore, Scripture is the Word of God. That’s not to say the Jesus is literally 66 books, but rather Christ is the Living Word. He is the embodiment and fulfillment of all that Scripture speaks of. So when I say that the Word of God holds the power to call sinners to repentance, I’m speaking of that fact that when Scripture is revealed to a man or woman, the very identity of Christ is revealed, which is whom we must believe in to be saved.

Also, people are not held equally responsible under God’s judgment. Rather, He judges with equity, meaning He judges men and women according to the revelation that has been given to them. I know this is correct because it is a claim that the Word of God clearly states.(or should I say Jesus clearly states)

[–]R3dTul1p 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Lol- you have essentially made it a fact that cessationism is a heresy without any evidence to the contrary.

Personally, I do not hold to the same degree of cessationism as John Calvin would have- this topic has NOTHING to do with the topic of Soteriology, and has no real bearing in the conversation at hand.

As for a demon possessed person- that would be easy my friend. The name of Jesus is the name above all names, and all we would have to do is rebuke that demon in the name of Christ, and our faith and authority in the utterance would drive it out. If you think there some special little ceremony in the whole process that goes beyond that- there is no Biblical precedent for it. If the gifts are a spiritual reality, then the LORD will give us the wisdom to perform the necessary signs when the time is right. Whatever glorifies him.

So please, before going around calling a theological worldview wumbology because of another topic pretty much entirely disconnected from each other- please set up an actual argument that is not wumbological.

[–][deleted] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]R3dTul1p 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Once again my friend, TULIP has nothing to do with cessationism, so the fact that you're attacking TULIP because of a part of theology that has NO bearing in the conversation at hand reveals that it's not worth engaging in a debate on cessationism with you.

You can be a cessationist and a Calvinist, and you can be a continualist and a Calvinist. But clearly you watched some 3 minute YouTube video that told you otherwise. Why don't you actually read the history of the Reformation and Reformed Doctrine before throwing out claims that cessationism goes hand in hand with Calvinism. Spoiler: It doesn't.

Read the link I attached, and then maybe read the Westminster Confessions of Faith, and then maybe even read some of Calvin himself to see how uninformed you are. Nothing within the core tenets of Calvinist doctrines has any sort of condemnation of continualism.

Honestly, take the heart of OP's message--make sure you deeply understand theology before you start puking out truth claims and condemnations that reveal how misinformed you are. Lurk and learn. My goal isn't to convince you of cessationism--it's to reveal to you that you don't actually understand the conversation at hand and should gain some more knowledge under your tool belt before you want to jump into debates on orthodoxy.

[–]R3dTul1p 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]redwall92 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Nodeal_reddit 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Continuous-Metanoia5 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]WhereProgressIsMade 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Background-Camera109 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Continuous-Metanoia 5 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

I appreciate the Corinthians verse, although it seems that you are using it out of spite rather than attempting to persuade.

This post is not a 101 on rule following, but rather a guide on building worldview. Believe it or not, I do want new users to flourish here, but that is best done through listening first.

Let's say a man has a thousand questions when he stumbles upon this sub. But instead of spewing out his babble, he is wise and decides to read the sidebar and study up on all of the moderators' advice to other users. Slowly, those thousand questions will get boiled down into unique insights that have been given to him by God to share with this community. That's what I'm after.

"A wise man will hear and increase learning, And a man of understanding will attain wise counsel." - Proverbs 1:5

[–]rocknrollchuckMod | 53M | Married 14 yrs 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Red-CuriousMod | 37M | Married 14 yrs 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Continuous-Metanoia1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Friend, I’m right there along with you, in terms of encouraging new users and welcoming people into this community.

I appreciate your Corinthians quote and I take it to heart.

I think you might have misunderstood me. This post is not meant to be a 101 on rule following, but rather a guide on building worldview. My heart truly is for new users to flourish, but that is best done through listening first.

Perhaps a man comes here with a thousand questions and has yet to read the sidebar. But let’s say he is wise, and instead of spewing out his babble, decides to read the sidebar and study up on all of the moderator’s advice to other users. Slowly those thousand questions will be boiled down into very unique insights that have been personally given to him by God to share with this community. That’s what I’m after.

“Let the wise hear and increase in learning, and the one who understands obtain guidance.”

[–][deleted] 5 years ago (34 children) | Copy Link

[–]OsmiumZuluMod | Trapasaurus Rex 🦖 | Married 8y 8 points9 points10 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Continuous-Metanoia 5 years ago [recovered] (27 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link

[–]Sigma-Angel_of_Death 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

[–]R3dTul1p 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]R3dTul1p 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago* (21 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]R3dTul1p 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

Once again, you clearly haven't embraced RedPill, so no need to continue this.

I do know the needs of your heart actually:

CHRIST.

So go read His word. I don't know how I've come across as a hypocrite- because I am making no judgments of you- my purpose is not to be judgmental. And if you knew OP, you would know his isn't either.

He started the journey at one point too, and it was hard. And all he was doing was commending his friend for starting his journey prudently and following the Proverbs 15 to illustrate that.

I guarantee you if you read the sidebar, lift, and just lurk on here, you will benefit way more from the material than if you just victim post. Please- go see OP's post history. You'll see that his heart is for people to improve- not to gatekeep.

That's all RPC wants- to see men improve- so instead of letting yourself get hurt and offended and start throwing the term "hypocrites!", study the nuances as OP suggested. Join the Discord!Get into fellowship with people who will challenge you as you work on becoming a better man!

If you're not up for it, well, that's your loss. And you can go ahead and unsub and go on with your life. Truly- I desire for your understanding of this for your own improvement- otherwise I wouldn't bother continuing this conversation. So I implore you to try OP's recommendation and see where it leads you. Or just post as you like. You may not see the difference in your own life, but the rest of us will.

[–]OrlandoTheAxe2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link