Hear me out here. I know that MSTOW comes across as derogatory because of all the incels that have hijacked the MGTOW movement so nobody wants to be associated with them - which is fair. But there isn't anything inherently wrong with a guy who was unsuccessful in dating for whatever reason - e.g. he was socially isolated, he did not have good social skills, he wasn't very good looking or he just didn't happen to meet many women for whatever reason. And people say "MSTOW" to guys as a kind of insult but there isn't any reason not to embrace this term anyway if you are still investing your life into things other than dating: self-improvement, arts, passions, lifting, whatever else.

MGTOW on the other hand are not all guys that can't have success with women: I know that there are successful, muscular attractive men who choose the path of MGTOW and may even sleep with lots of women, they just choose to abstain from LTRs. But I am trying to advocate MSTOW for guys who are not negatively minded towards women like incels are and MG/STOW for guys who are maybe kind of only semi-voluntarily celibate - they have attractive features just not enough to get women of their calibre. I see myself more as a kind of MG/STOW in so far as I am kind of "going" my own way but also kind of "sent" my own way.

And this, by the way was the kind of mindset that got me banned from MGTOW 1.0 because they said this was too "incel" or something. But realistically not everyone who wants to learn from MGTOW philosophy (the good points) are going to be tall alpha male muscular rich guys banging boat fulls of 18 year old bikini models. If those are the only guys they want on board they'd be better off starting r/MGTOWelite or something. Otherwise the rest of us regular human beings could maybe learn a thing or two from MG/STOW in our isolation (voluntary, not so voluntary, or somewhere in between) from society.

What are your thoughts on this?