I know I'll get a ton of hate for wrong think, but hear me out

EmirikolWoker · 2020-12-24T13:58:30+00:00

Don't equate people disagreeing with your position with hatred for wrongthink.

you only sit around and complain about issues without attempting to solve them.

Here's a post with examples of mens rights activism.

a lot of the posts here are talking about things that aren't issues at all.

No-one cares about whether girls reject you or not, they have preferences just like you and me. If a puzzle piece wont fit, forcing it won't help.

I would like to see evidence that a lot of posts here are talking about things that aren't issues at all, like dating preferences. I'm seeing a lot of posts about DV, a lot about rape (both examples where women commit it and aren't recognised as doing so, as well as situations when men have been attacked with false allegations), and mens' health issues.

Thirdly, and lastly, feminism isn't literally Satan. Feminism is a movement that advocates the abolishment of certain problems, such as getting away with rape and sex slavery, much like how w are against the draft and men having to conform to gender roles.

The foundational principals of all flavours of feminism are inherrently anti-male when you examine what needs to be true for them to accurately describe reality. Feminists can claim that it's "just about equality", but it's equality based on bigotted assumptions, presuming psychopathy on the part of men as a class.

Egalitarian values, and mens rights advocacy in particular, is innately antifeminist.

Please, see not only from your perspective, but from all perspectives.

Many of us used to be feminists. It was learning about feminism, the reality behind the public party-slogans, that lead us to distance ourselves from the label.

davidboi1324 · 2020-12-24T13:54:03+00:00

Says the guy posting this sort of comment on r/twoxchromosomes

Come on mate

evenhub · 2020-12-24T14:02:20+00:00

You’ll get a ton of hate for this because this post is objectively toxic. The last sentence is ironic: “Please, see not only from your perspective, but from all perspectives.” Let’s also add this platitude: Don’t be a hypocrite.

Catcrumble · 2020-12-24T14:03:50+00:00

ok, so, your complaints:

people here are always complaining about "the evil Feminists™"

They absolutely are evil.
but you only sit around and complain about issues without attempting to solve them

This is an internet forum, we discuss things
a lot of the posts here are talking about things that aren't issues at all

Different people have different priorities.

Your ridiculous assertions:

Male here.

I mean, maybe but i doubt it. Anyway it's silly for you to assert this, the fact that you think it matters is somewhat silly tho, dlyda.
No-one cares about whether girls reject you or not

I care about all the things that cause men to suffer, i am not no-one. and besides, this is an assertion that such posts exist - which they do not.
feminism isn't literally Satan. Feminism is a movement that advocates the abolishment of certain problems, such as getting away with rape and sex slavery

but feminism IS literally Satan, and all it advocates for is more choice and less responsibility for females, less choice and more responsibility for males. Fully in favor of the rape of men and children (as long as the rapists are female) fully in favor of sex slavers, as long as it is men enslaved by women.
Please, see not only from your perspective, but from all perspectives.

IF this is the claim that you yourself see from all perspectives then it is the claim that you are god.

VermilionScarlet · 2020-12-24T14:10:58+00:00

I don't think you'll get a ton of hate for writing this, we tend to be pro-free speech and are happy to hear contrary viewpoints. I feel like if you'd written the equivalent thing (i.e. dismissing the idea of an evil patriarchy) on a feminist sub, you would get a load of abuse however.

This sub is focused largely on real men's rights, things that don't get an airing in mainstream media and it's a good thing for men to have a place to discuss these issues. When I go onto a feminism sub, there are probably 90%+ of things I don't agree with and you could make exactly the same argument with those subs but you won't hear us trying to shut them down.

And t's rarely about "I can't find a girlfriend", I think you're thinking of incel subs.

duhhhh · 2020-12-24T14:18:20+00:00

Feminism is a movement that advocates the abolishment of certain problems, such as getting away with rape

Please, see not only from your perspective, but from all perspectives.

For statistical reporting, rape has been carefully defined as forced penetration of the victim in most of the world. Please listen to this feminist professor Mary P Koss explain that a woman raping a man isn't rape. Hear her explain in her own voice just a few years ago - https://clyp.it/uckbtczn. I encourage you to listen to what she is saying. (Really. Listen to it! Think about it from a man's perspective.)

She is considered the foremost expert on sexual violence in the US. She is the one that started the 1 in 4 American college women is sexually assaulted myth by counting all sorts of things the "victims" didn't. A man misinterpreting a situation going in for a kiss and then backing off when she pulls back, puts up her hand, or turns her cheek is counted as a sexual assault on a woman even if she doesn't think it was. As you hear in her own words the woman's studies professor and trusted expert that literally wrote the book on measuring prevalence of sexual violence does not call a woman drugging and riding a man bareback rape ... or even label it sexual assault ... it is merely "unwanted contact"

You see she has been saying this for decades and was instrumental in creating the methodologies most (including the US and many other government agencies around the world) use for gathering rape statistics. E.g.

Detecting the Scope of Rape : A Review of Prevalence Research Methods. Author: Mary P. Koss. Journal of Interpersonal Violence Volume: 8 Issue: 2 Dated: (June 1993) Page: 206

Although consideration of male victims is within the scope of the legal statutes, it is important to restrict the term rape to instances where male victims were penetrated by offenders. It is inappropriate to consider as a rape victim a man who engages in unwanted sexual intercourse with a woman.

Src: http://boysmeneducation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Koss-1993-Detecting-the-Scope-of-Rape-a-review-of-prevalence-research-methods-see-p.-206-last-paragraph.pdf

She is an advisor to the CDC, FBI, Congress, and researchers around the world and promoting the idea that men cannot be raped by women. There was a proposal to explicitly include forced envelopment in the latest FBI update to the definition of rape but after a closed door meeting with her and N.O.W. lobbiests, it mysteriously disappeared. She has many many followers and fellow researchers that follow her methodology and quote her studies. That is where most people get the idea rape is just a man on woman crime. Men are fairly rarely penetrated and it is almost always by another man.

Most people talking about sexual violence refer to the "rape" (penetrated) numbers as influenced by Mary Koss's methodologies, but in the US the CDC also gathered the data for "made to penetrate" (enveloped) in the 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2015 NISVS studies.

As an example lets look at the 2011 survey numbers: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss6308a1.htm

an estimated 1.6% of women (or approximately 1.9 million women) were raped in the 12 months before taking the survey

and

The case count for men reporting rape in the preceding 12 months was too small to produce a statistically reliable prevalence estimate.

vs

an estimated 1.7% of men were made to penetrate a perpetrator in the 12 months preceding the survey

and

Characteristics of Sexual Violence Perpetrators For female rape victims, an estimated 99.0% had only male perpetrators. In addition, an estimated 94.7% of female victims of sexual violence other than rape had only male perpetrators. For male victims, the sex of the perpetrator varied by the type of sexual violence experienced. The majority of male rape victims (an estimated 79.3%) had only male perpetrators. For three of the other forms of sexual violence, a majority of male victims had only female perpetrators: being made to penetrate (an estimated 82.6%), sexual coercion (an estimated 80.0%),

So if made to penetrate happens each year as much as rape then by most people's assumed definition of rape then men are half of rape victims. If 99% of rapists are men and 83% of "made to penetrators" are women ... then an estimated 42% of the perpetrators of nonconsensual sex in 2011 were women.

But since made to penetrate is not rape, the narrative is that men are rapists and women are victims and boys/men that are victims are victims of men. Therefore most of the gender studies folks create programs to teach men not to rape (e.g. /r/science/comments/3rmapx/science_ama_series_im_laura_salazar_associate/). Therefore there is justification for having gendered rape support services which means almost none for males victimized by females. These misleading stats are ammo to tell men to shut up about rape because 1 in 5 women are raped vs "only" 1 in 71 men and dismiss raped men because men are one group "nearly all the men were raped by other men" so somehow raped men are to blame because they are men...

And before you think that was just one study, it wasn't. The prior year numbers have been really close between the sexes most years.

2010 survey results - https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/cdc_nisvs_ipv_report_2013_v17_single_a.pdf

2012 survey results - https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/NISVS-StateReportBook.pdf

2015 survey results - https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/2015data-brief508.pdf

Scientific American - https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sexual-victimization-by-women-is-more-common-than-previously-known

data revealed that over one year, men and women were equally likely to experience nonconsensual sex, and most male victims reported female perpetrators. Over their lifetime, 79 percent of men who were “made to penetrate” someone else (a form of rape, in the view of most researchers) reported female perpetrators. Likewise, most men who experienced sexual coercion and unwanted sexual contact had female perpetrators.

And non CDC study...

A recent study of youth found, strikingly, that females comprise 48 percent of those who self-reported committing rape or attempted rape at age 18-19.

The Atlantic - https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/11/the-understudied-female-sexual-predator/503492/

Another non CDC study...

a 2014 study of 284 men and boys in college and high school found that 43 percent reported being sexually coerced, with the majority of coercive incidents resulting in unwanted sexual intercourse. Of them, 95 percent reported only female perpetrators.

And another non CDC study...

National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions found in a sample of 43,000 adults little difference in the sex of self-reported sexual perpetrators. Of those who affirmed that they had ‘ever forced someone to have sex with you against their will,’ 43.6 percent were female and 56.4 percent were male.”

Time - http://time.com/3393442/cdc-rape-numbers

when asked about experiences in the last 12 months, men reported being “made to penetrate”—either by physical force or due to intoxication—at virtually the same rates as women reported rape (both 1.1 percent in 2010, and 1.7 and 1.6 respectively in 2011).

If my information is not enough, try reading these threads by problem_redditor with lots more studies and references.

https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i0j2g9/some_sources_on_sexual_abuse_of_men_and_boys/

https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i6sdli/some_sources_on_sexual_abuse_of_men_and_boys_part/

https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/iavcnv/some_sources_on_sexual_abuse_of_men_and_boys_part/

Just maybe, rape isn't a gendered issue and we should stop treating it like one. But if we acknowledge that, then we would have to point the blame at "rapists", rather than "men".

And it isn't just the US.

Feminists lobbied against gender neutral rape laws in India, so women are not rapists and men victimized by women are not rape victims. https://www.timesofindia.com/india/Activists-join-chorus-against-gender-neutral-rape-laws/articleshow/18840879.cms

So a woman physically forcing sex on a man is not a rape in India, but a man breaking an engagement after having sex with his fiancee is a rape.

Israeli feminists were concerned if a woman raping a man was recognized by law, a man could threaten to make false accusations against the woman after the man raped her in order to keep her from reporting. Apparently false accusations are a problem for women, so they fixed this by blocking the legislation that would have made rape a gender neutral crime.

https://m.jpost.com/Israel/Womens-groups-Cancel-law-charging-women-with-rape

Nepal feminists also blocked legislation there ...

Women’s rights activists had criticised the draft ordinance saying it wasn’t empathetic towards the plight of the victims. They said that having a provision saying even men could be victims of rape could could further weaken the women rape victims’ fight for justice.

https://kathmandupost.com/national/2020/12/11/ordinance-amends-law-on-rape-but-fails-to-recognise-rape-of-boy-child-and-sexual-minorities

Even if you only care about women, you should still stop women from raping because the majority of men convicted of raping women were sexually violated by adult women when they were boys. Multiple studies in the US, UK, and Canada have shown this. Around 10 of them cited here.

http://empathygap.uk/?p=1993#_Toc498111528

So women not raping, and rape by women being acknowledged as traumatic and treated with compassion, would probably stop a lot of women from getting raped in the future. That should matter if the goal is to stop women from getting raped rather than to demonize men.

duhhhh · 2020-12-24T14:23:40+00:00

and men having to conform to gender roles

Please, see not only from your perspective, but from all perspectives.

The Canadian government is offering Covid stimulous to mothers, not parents...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/shaharziv/2020/12/17/canadas-stimulus-package-1200-stimulus-checks-plus-a-dose-of-sexism/

A mother can choose to give her payment to the father if she wants to...

“However, if the male parent is primarily responsible, he should apply and attach a signed letter from the female parent stating that he is the parent who is primarily responsible for all the children in the home,” the government states.

In the US feminists complain that women are responsible for birth control, but...

Obamacare has a bunch of sexist provisions including: https://www.healthcare.gov/coverage/birth-control-benefits/

All birth control including tubal ligation, female condoms, IUDs, etc are free by federal law. As you can see, vasectomy and any future male pill is explicitly not covered.

Men are told it's their own fault they die younger, but...

https://www.healthcare.gov/coverage/preventive-care-benefits/

Three categories of preventive care. Adult, women, and children.

Domestic violence screening, STD testing, and smoking cessation programs are free for women, not adults. There are free cancer screenings for women (PAP, mammogram), but none for prostate cancer (PSA).

duhhhh · 2020-12-24T14:27:23+00:00

This sub is for men's rights, but people here are always complaining about "the evil Feminists™".

Please, see not only from your perspective, but from all perspectives.

If feminists were not working for special privileges for females and blocking attempts at equality for males, we wouldn't do that... As long as they continue to do so without being called out by other feminists, we will continue to call them out ourselves.

trash62 · 2020-12-24T16:02:08+00:00

Feminism is a movement that advocates the abolishment of certain problems, such as getting away with rape and sex slavery,

The very idea that rape is something you would "get away with" indicates a mental disturbance. Rape isn't something one "gets away with". Those who do it, in a true sense, are mentally ill. If you honestly think it would even be possible to "get away with" such an act, I would encourage you to seek help.

You don't seem to understand that if you did something like that, you would have to live with yourself. Law or no law, you can't get away with it.

Feminism would teach you that you are a rapist by nature, and that rape is something you would naturally do, if you could "get away with" it. (When I believe in truth, it would actually disgust most of us)

That in your shameful nature, reparations and special priviliges are needed to balance this out.

You seem to have drunken the kool-aid. Enjoy your miserable self image they gave you. When you hear red pilled men talk about "worshipping women" this is what we are talking about. Letting feminists define you, and be your "creator". If you listen to who they say you are, you would be a rapist!

You know who "gets away with" rape? Power hungry psychopaths with no conscious and no sense of right or wrong. People who get off on the power because it's the only thing they are capable of feeling.

How ironic that "Rape culture" is really about dominating men with accusations of rape. Look who uses sex for power.

Then come back and tell us about how great feminism is. And how great it is for women.

2020-12-24T16:39:48+00:00

The person is a troll just look at the comment history I personally like this one the best (though it was removed from twox)

All men are evil and deserve to be killed

2020-12-24T16:24:57+00:00

" getting off your fat asses " - You don't look good when you start off by insulting the people you're trying to make a statement to. Good job. 😆To assume we're all 'fat asses' simply isn't true.
Can you affect and change Family Court in America? No. Can you single-highhandedly take down Amber Heard and the feminist BS she has pulled? No. Can you make the standards in schools equally favor men and women equally? No. You can't force people into a job they don't want.
Women tend to choose softer, less valuable jobs and in Education, women are biased against boys. This bias exists into college and post grad work.
Yes, feminism is 'Satan' but anyone who uses 'literal' like that doesn't know the meaning of the word. No one needs a label to support equality (as best it can be) of the sexes. Feminists tend to be fat, badly tattooed and pierces, unclean, fat/obese women and beta weak boys who do nothing but scream ever -ist, -phobe, bigot, etc. at anyone who doesn't agree with them.
They spout the same nonsense like 'the patriarchy' and the 'gender wage gap' when neither exist.

wysiwyg180902 · 2020-12-24T13:55:20+00:00

Yep! The toxicity of both sides' righteous indignation clearly feeds some emotional need, but ultimately just validates the other side's negative feelings. A lose-lose situation.

Take care of your own business, have real empathy for others and listen first. Don't be an asshole ‐ a simple rule to live by.

Title	I know I'll get a ton of hate for wrong think, but hear me out
Author	dlyda
Upvotes	0
Comments	25
Date	December 24, 2020 1:50 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/kjfqpk/i_know_ill_get_a_ton_of_hate_for_wrong_think_but/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/i-know-ill-get-a-ton-of-hate-for-wrong-think-but.837559 https://theredarchive.com/post/837559

Comments