How to make change.

2020-11-15T09:28:51+00:00

Lately we’ve been getting a lot of support I’ve tried talking to my dad about it, he seems to be catching on

tekmailer · 2020-11-15T09:02:06+00:00

Welcome to the vicious cycle. This goes for ALL CHANGE in all facets, faces and features.

The skill is combating contrary to the conversation—there’s plenty of that. Boot up and enact the change you want to see and be.

“Change is good. You first.”

ShortTailBoa · 2020-11-15T12:32:19+00:00

This is the dumbest thing I've ever read. How do you combat something if most people are unwilling to accept that it's evil? No one is going to help you combat things they think are just and righteous.

We first have to convience people that the way system is rigged is evil before they try to fix it. If the system is rigged and isn't evil then there's no reason for them to fix it.

This makes no sense.

Nath43673 · 2020-11-15T09:25:43+00:00

Maybe an approach would be to pick one issue to specialise on, then maybe commit to a regular "progress" post once a week or once a fortnight.

Also, if possible, find a way to be active about it outside of this sub (even outside of Reddit). I get the impression Reddit is useful for discussing things but doesn't lend itself to action.

Ok-Rush-5486 · 2020-11-16T01:02:49+00:00

more and more, as you go lower in the "hot" page, you see people talking about ways that they get the word out- just a couple posts above yours, someone is talking about posting flyers. in any case, the evidence on top is helpful to new people who want to know if this is an actual movement or just a couple of nut jobs posting flyers. We need to have more courage in spreading the word. Assuming that there are three steps in every movement, we have found the problem, but we still need to gather influence. we are transitioning to that now, and with more bravery, i can see this movement instigating real societal and legal change. that being said, we need to have the courage to go out of this sub and ask people to support the movement. we also need to separate ourselves from mgtow.

iainmf · 2020-11-15T10:59:08+00:00

Be the change you want to see

Hawkwood_ · 2020-11-15T13:32:06+00:00

Welcome to social movements. They tend to get too emotionally charged, which keeps them from reaching the point you're talking about. You're entirely right, I'm just not too confident it can easily happen. Most people in here seem to be more worried about expressing their hatred than to really make any change.

AskingToFeminists · 2020-11-16T01:19:06+00:00

However are we still in the exploration phase, isn't it already proven that all these issues are real?

There is an incredibly big difference between "proven" and "largely known", let alone "accepted".

I mean, if you go to askfeminists right now. There is a post asking "why is it considered hypocritical for feminists not to address men's issues? ", with plenty of answers along the line of "when you are privileged equality feels like oppression", and "men rights is just pushback against equality".

Most people don't even have the faintest idea about those proofs we have.

From time to time, I see people, like you, who have complaints along the line of "all you people ever do is talk about those issues, we should actually do something".

And I have the same thing to say to them. Right now, the MRM isn't really in a position to accomplish much, although it's getting better. You see, you can't affect laws and policies by much unless there is some amount of popular support. You can't get public funding unless there is some amount of political will, which depends on publics demand, which depends on public awareness.

The "MRAs don't do anything" is a common thing said by feminists in order to try to keep us impotent.

A few years ago, there was a man named Earl Silverman. He was an MRA trying to "do something". He tried to create a shelter for male victims of domestic abuse. He ended up killing himself in despair, because it was impossible to secure any sort of funding or support.

On the other hand, a few years later, Cassie Jaye released the documentary "the red pill", which resulted in a lot of public awareness, a big growth of the movement, and plenty of initiatives starting.

The "MRAs never do anything concrete" crowd are basically people who preferred to see plenty of early Silverman, and no Cassie Jaye. It is the Cassie Jaye s they want to prevent, because they are the ones actually the most needed right now. Without them, all the Earl Silverman of the world won't do a thing.

Beside, this is reddit. What do you expect to see beside raising of awareness? There isn't that much else that can be done on reddit. Calls to "stop just raising awareness" are basically a "go away from reddit".

E.g. guidelines to give young men which give them compromises between still experiencing a meaningful relationship with a woman and not getting exploited/ruined or forced into the typical male roles.

If I'm not mistaken, that's a non-negligible part of what MGTOW is about, actually. After all, not all MGTOWs advise people to go full monk.

Or therapeutic ways to deal with hate, discrimination and lack of empathy towards one.

That's being done. Have you heard of people like Tom Golden or Deborah Powney ?

Currently we are not on a path that will bring change

Have you heard of NCFM? They recently got a court to declare the male only draft unconstitutional.

In fact, before making your post, have you even bothered to make a research on this sub on things like "MRA accomplishment"? Because you would have found plenty of posts making lists of those kinds of things.

For people like me who have been into this movement for something like 10years, I can tell you that I have seen the progresses that are being made, one of the biggest being the spread of the MRA ideas. And people who have been in it longer than I have will tell you even more how much things have changed.

But a lot of this progress is actually to be laid at the feet of people like Karen Straughan, Paul Elam and Cassie Jaye. Communicators, who have done a lot to spread those ideas, so that when people try to actually act on them, they receive answers like "I know right, that's terrible, and something should be done about it", rather than "what are you talking about? You sound delusional. That's not a real problem. I would be crucified by my voters if I tried to fund that".

If you are under the impression that the same things are repeated over and over, it is because they are. But they are because new people are constantly learning about them for the first time. Just this kind of post you are making appear regularly, because others like you start to think "it's OK, we know what's going on, let's do something about it" without realizing that actually, we are doing all those things, but that the most important one is to keep repeating again and again all those points, because they need to reach a bigger level of awareness.

Someone can just go about anywhere, set up an organization around one of the latest feminist buzzword or whatever, and given that everyone has awareness of it in the population, they have actually à chance to do something. If I say to a random person "patriarchy", "wage gap", "glass ceiling", "mansplaining", "toxic masculinity" or "rape culture", most people will have some sort of idea of what this is about, and will have heard at least that it is something to do with the people "fighting sexism" so it's probably at least something worthy of some form. Of tacit support.

If I go to someone random and talk about "male disposability", "malagency" or "gynocentrism", most likely they will think I speak some alien language, and of the few who will have heard of it, most will have a negative a-priori about anyone using those terms. But since recently, topics like "male victims of domestic violence" or "due process rights" have reach some level of general awareness, in a way opposite to what feminists would have wished and congruent with what we have been saying during all those years, and our message has started to resonate, and some of the MRA talking points and terms are going mainstream. And if they do, it's also because there are people constantly repeating those same conczpts, educating people about them and spreading awareness.

saifu91 · 2020-11-15T11:39:22+00:00

I would suggest we should not fuel this battle between the genders and rather encourage building strong families.

Title	How to make change.
Author	jukutt
Upvotes	28
Comments	10
Date	November 15, 2020 8:08 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/juijzm/how_to_make_change/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/how-to-make-change.840698 https://theredarchive.com/post/840698

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