I'm not saying almost all men are rapists, but almost all rapists are men

EmirikolWoker · 2020-09-07T17:03:51+00:00

Since rape is defined as something only a cisgendered man can do, I'm interested to know how you're getting "almost".

That aside, when you compare rape statistics and made-to-penetrate statistics, you find a much more even gender-split among perpetrators.

Maito_Guy · 2020-09-07T17:11:26+00:00

It's total bullshit, that is only the case if you define rape as something that can only be committed by a man which is usually the case legally and in studies/surveys. If you define rape as forcing another person to engage in sex then the numbers of male/female perpetrators are fairly close.

duhhhh · 2020-09-07T18:17:04+00:00

For statistical reporting, rape has been carefully defined as forced penetration of the victim in most of the world. Please listen to this feminist professor Mary P Koss explain that a woman raping a man isn't rape. Hear her explain in her own voice just a few years ago - https://clyp.it/uckbtczn. I encourage you to listen to what she is saying. (Really. Listen to it! Think about it from a man's perspective.)

She is considered the foremost expert on sexual violence in the US. She is the one that started the 1 in 4 American college women is sexually assaulted myth by counting all sorts of things the "victims" didn't. A man misinterpreting a situation going in for a kiss and then backing off when she pulls back, puts up her hand, or turns her cheek is counted as a sexual assault on a woman even if she doesn't think it was. As you hear in her own words the woman's studies professor and trusted expert that literally wrote the book on measuring prevalence of sexual violence does not call a woman drugging and riding a man bareback rape ... or even label it sexual assault ... it is merely "unwanted contact"

You see she has been saying this for decades and was instrumental in creating the methodologies most (including the US and many other government agencies around the world) use for gathering rape statistics. E.g.

Detecting the Scope of Rape : A Review of Prevalence Research Methods. Author: Mary P. Koss. Journal of Interpersonal Violence Volume: 8 Issue: 2 Dated: (June 1993) Page: 206

Although consideration of male victims is within the scope of the legal statutes, it is important to restrict the term rape to instances where male victims were penetrated by offenders. It is inappropriate to consider as a rape victim a man who engages in unwanted sexual intercourse with a woman.

Src: http://boysmeneducation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Koss-1993-Detecting-the-Scope-of-Rape-a-review-of-prevalence-research-methods-see-p.-206-last-paragraph.pdf

She is an advisor to the CDC, FBI, Congress, and researchers around the world and promoting the idea that men cannot be raped by women. There was a proposal to explicitly include forced envelopment in the latest FBI update to the definition of rape but after a closed door meeting with her and N.O.W. lobbiests, it mysteriously disappeared. She has many many followers and fellow researchers that follow her methodology and quote her studies. That is where most people get the idea rape is just a man on woman crime. Men are fairly rarely penetrated and it is almost always by another man.

Most people talking about sexual violence refer to the "rape" (penetrated) numbers as influenced by Mary Koss's methodologies, but in the US the CDC also gathered the data for "made to penetrate" (enveloped) in the 2010, 2011, and 2015 NISVS studies.

As an example lets look at the 2011 survey numbers: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss6308a1.htm

an estimated 1.6% of women (or approximately 1.9 million women) were raped in the 12 months before taking the survey

and

The case count for men reporting rape in the preceding 12 months was too small to produce a statistically reliable prevalence estimate.

vs

an estimated 1.7% of men were made to penetrate a perpetrator in the 12 months preceding the survey

and

Characteristics of Sexual Violence Perpetrators For female rape victims, an estimated 99.0% had only male perpetrators. In addition, an estimated 94.7% of female victims of sexual violence other than rape had only male perpetrators. For male victims, the sex of the perpetrator varied by the type of sexual violence experienced. The majority of male rape victims (an estimated 79.3%) had only male perpetrators. For three of the other forms of sexual violence, a majority of male victims had only female perpetrators: being made to penetrate (an estimated 82.6%), sexual coercion (an estimated 80.0%),

So if made to penetrate happens each year as much as rape then by most people's assumed definition of rape then men are half of rape victims. If 99% of rapists are men and 83% of "made to penetrators" are women ... then an estimated 42% of the perpetrators of nonconsensual sex in 2011 were women.

But since made to penetrate is not rape, the narrative is that men are rapists and women are victims and boys/men that are victims are victims of men. Therefore most of the gender studies folks create programs to teach men not to rape (e.g. /r/science/comments/3rmapx/science_ama_series_im_laura_salazar_associate/). Therefore there is justification for having gendered rape support services which means almost none for males victimized by females. These misleading stats are ammo to tell men to shut up about rape because 1 in 5 women are raped vs "only" 1 in 71 men and nearly all the men were raped by other men...

And before you think that was just one study, it wasn't. The prior year numbers have been really close between the sexes most years.

2010 survey results - https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/cdc_nisvs_ipv_report_2013_v17_single_a.pdf

2012 survey results - https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/NISVS-StateReportBook.pdf

2015 survey results - https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/2015data-brief508.pdf

Scientific American - https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sexual-victimization-by-women-is-more-common-than-previously-known

data revealed that over one year, men and women were equally likely to experience nonconsensual sex, and most male victims reported female perpetrators. Over their lifetime, 79 percent of men who were “made to penetrate” someone else (a form of rape, in the view of most researchers) reported female perpetrators. Likewise, most men who experienced sexual coercion and unwanted sexual contact had female perpetrators.

And non CDC study...

A recent study of youth found, strikingly, that females comprise 48 percent of those who self-reported committing rape or attempted rape at age 18-19.

The Atlantic - https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/11/the-understudied-female-sexual-predator/503492/

Another non CDC study...

a 2014 study of 284 men and boys in college and high school found that 43 percent reported being sexually coerced, with the majority of coercive incidents resulting in unwanted sexual intercourse. Of them, 95 percent reported only female perpetrators.

And another non CDC study...

National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions found in a sample of 43,000 adults little difference in the sex of self-reported sexual perpetrators. Of those who affirmed that they had ‘ever forced someone to have sex with you against their will,’ 43.6 percent were female and 56.4 percent were male.”

Time - http://time.com/3393442/cdc-rape-numbers

when asked about experiences in the last 12 months, men reported being “made to penetrate”—either by physical force or due to intoxication—at virtually the same rates as women reported rape (both 1.1 percent in 2010, and 1.7 and 1.6 respectively in 2011).

If my information is not enough, try reading these threads by problem_redditor with lots more studies and references.

https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i0j2g9/some_sources_on_sexual_abuse_of_men_and_boys/

https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i6sdli/some_sources_on_sexual_abuse_of_men_and_boys_part/

https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/iavcnv/some_sources_on_sexual_abuse_of_men_and_boys_part/

Just maybe, rape isn't a gendered issue and we should stop treating it like one. But if we acknowledge that, then we would have to point the blame at "rapists", rather than "men".

And it isn't just the US.

Feminists lobbied against gender neutral rape laws in India, so women are not rapists and men victimized by women are not rape victims. https://www.timesofindia.com/india/Activists-join-chorus-against-gender-neutral-rape-laws/articleshow/18840879.cms

So a woman physically forcing sex on a man is not a rape in India, but a man breaking an engagement after having sex with his fiancee is a rape.

Israeli feminists were concerned if a woman raping a man was recognized by law, a man could threaten to make false accusations against the woman after the man raped her in order to keep her from reporting. Apparently false accusations are a problem for women, so they fixed this by blocking the legislation that would have made rape a gender neutral crime.

https://m.jpost.com/Israel/Womens-groups-Cancel-law-charging-women-with-rape

So blaming men for rape doesn't acknowledge the problem. Rape is a people problem.

Even if you only care about women, you should still stop women from raping because the majority of men convicted of raping women were sexually violated by adult women when they were boys. Multiple studies in the US, UK, and Canada have shown this.

http://empathygap.uk/?p=1993#_Toc498111528

So women not raping, and rape by women being acknowledged as traumatic and treated with compassion, would probably stop a lot of women from getting raped in the future.

Dogrose22 · 2020-09-07T19:22:00+00:00

Your statement is nonsensical: ‘I’m not saying nearly all men are rapists’

What exactly are you attempting to convey by including ‘nearly’ in your statement?

With regards to your statement that ‘almost all men are rapists’, if you are referring to the biased, incorrect legal definition then it is inevitable that it appears nearly all rapists are men.

However, if you were to refer to actual rapes that occur but are not acknowledged nor recorded as rape under many current legal systems i.e. adult woman forcing/ seducing a minor to engage in sexual activity, woman forcing a man to penetrate her when it’s unwanted by the man e.g. through abusive behaviour, manipulation...etc., woman who forcibly penetrates another woman e.g. with object or fingers...etc. then you will find that women are equally capable of committing rape and sexual crimes.

user_miki · 2020-09-07T20:20:45+00:00

Definitions, definitions.....

If you have a hammer in your hand, anythings you see, looks like a nail.

StingRayFins · 2020-09-07T17:27:31+00:00

it's like saying most kills are from men.. "discuss"

Well, yea, men also are the ones who protect the most and to protect and defend many times you have to kill.

But if you want:

- a man's sexuality is much more instinctual than a females.

- men feel more resentment and anger from being ignored, misunderstood, and shamed for being human.

- many men's sexual needs aren't met + being played or led on and used.

- hoe culture with women themselves promoting themselves as sexual objects.

I believe that stats say that most "rapes" include alcohol and is done by people they know such as friends and family... so... it's not like most are randomly abducted and then raped. Most are instigated or fueled. You cannot simply convince a man to not be sexually driven. You can, however, educate BOTH sides. Yes, both sides, not just the men here about how to avoid rape.

mikesteane · 2020-09-07T22:44:44+00:00

So? What's your point?

iainmf · 2020-09-08T04:07:11+00:00

Approximately the same amount of women and men aren't rapists.

EricAllonde · 2020-09-08T12:10:22+00:00

False.

56% of rapists are men.

44% of rapists are women.

That's reasonably close to equal, especially when you factor in the enormous social pressure on men not to report being raped and gender-based myths like, "Men can't be raped because they always want to have sex".

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/11/the-understudied-female-sexual-predator/503492/

Title	I'm not saying almost all men are rapists, but almost all rapists are men
Author	MandalayBayWatch
Upvotes	0
Comments	19
Date	September 7, 2020 5:00 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/iobair/im_not_saying_almost_all_men_are_rapists_but/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/im-not-saying-almost-all-men-are-rapists-but.844471 https://theredarchive.com/post/844471

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