Hi ladies. What do you all think of this church pamphlet?

LifterofThings · 2014-05-12T03:02:40+00:00

Most of us here are atheists, I believe. Traditional gender roles really needn't have anything to do with religion-- do it cause it works, not because you're compelled by God or whatever. (Or don't submit if you like the kind of man you can quibble with over "equality"... whatever works for you). It should also be noted that a lot of us don't adhere to traditional gender roles (ie: woman as housewife), but the one thing that we do have in common is that we (happily) regard our husbands/boyfriends as leaders and treat them with appropriate respect.

"Submissive" in popular discourse has come to mean either "mindless bootlicker" or 50 Shades of Grey. Being submissive doesn't have to actually mean either (though it can, if you want it to). Either way, I wouldn't pay much attention to the outrage of the unwashed masses.

Also, lol at the fact that women need to be told to love their kids and husbands. Hoo, boy.

Bakerofpie · 2014-05-12T06:13:38+00:00

I think Christianity has a pretty good thing going as far as marriage views. It's the one thing I can use to relate to Christians. I really don't care how other people choose to live their lives, so I'm not terribly concerned about what anyone's church has to say unless it promotes violence and/or cruelty. This message is fine, and I think it's good that in a world of feminists girls can still be shown the option of being in a relationship with traditional gender roles. I don't believe anyone should be absolutely obligated to do so, but many would be much happier if they weren't shamed out of choosing that path.

HappySnowGirl · 2014-05-12T13:14:55+00:00

I'm a practicing Christian. I've seen Scripture twisted to support women working and women staying home. Even the Proverbs 31 woman works. I don't think God is overly concerned with that either way so much as he wants faith and family first in our hearts and priorities. Things that get in the way are ambition and desire for material luxuries.

I stay home and take a submissive role because it's key to my personal happiness and my family's wellbeing, not for a great moral or ethical purpose.

[deleted] · 2014-05-12T13:10:44+00:00

[permanently deleted]

sg92i · 2014-05-12T14:26:13+00:00

Well if we take this one line at a time,

Train to love their husbands & love their children

Why should it be a big controversial thing to actually love your spouse or your kids? The only part of this that I see uncertainty with is the use of the word "train," since it can be interpreted in either a benign or malevolent way. There's nothing wrong with a girl growing up in a household with good role models where everyone cares about each other, and then growing up to act the same way because that's how she was raised. But there is something definitely wrong with, say, the idea that people will act a certain way if you just force them to with abuse [verbally or physically].

Self Control

Without a context its a reasonable enough statement. Anyone who is rational would see the logic behind not using debt to live a lifestyle better than you can really afford. I am assuming this list is about relationships, and therefore also sex norms, but it still works here if you consider how much of a problem it would be to say, have unplanned pregnancies. This is good advice for everyone i.e. rushing into a relationship with someone you don't know enough about, and quickly finding you don't really get along with them.

Purity

Again, assuming this is all about relationship & sex practices, there is a strong rational basis behind this concept. Until literally a few decades ago there was no such thing as paternity tests. Until less than a century ago there was no antibiotics. Stop and think about what this means: For most of the human experience it was easy to tell who someone's mother was, because you can watch her give birth, but no one can easily tell who the father is. This is why the Jews, Mormons, and many native American tribes all track genealogy through the maternal line. Even with paternity tests paternity fraud is a continuing problem, where guys have been told a kid is theirs [when it is not] only to find out 10 years down the road that it isn't. By that point its too late, and can cause severe emotional damage to the father if he loved those kids [not to mention potentially make the kid's childhood pretty shitty]. STDs before antibiotics is even worse of a problem. Have you read historical counts of what happens if you can't cure syphilis? Its a terrible, long way to die. Without antibiotics you have people requiring regular procedures where pointy objects are cut into their flesh to open up areas blocked off by scar tissue. Oh, and if we're talking pre19th century they might not even have had anesthesia to give you while they thrust a tocar threw your urethra. With herpes, HPV, and HIV this historical context never became obsolete, and in the last few years drug resistant chlamydia has emerged so the list of incurable STDs is actually growing.

Working at home

I do not know what they mean by this exactly, so I am going to skip it for now.

Kind

Self explanatory. Do you like being around people who are cranky, mean, or abrasive? Would you want someone who is always unhappy living with you 24/7 for the rest of the foreseeable future? Being kind is a fundamental prerequisite for interacting with others.

Submissive

There is a problem if there is a power struggle within a relationship. To function a relationship has to be collaborative, where everyone brings something different to the table to help each other go further in life. When a disagreement occurs they should pause & talk about it like rational adults. This will mean sometimes you don't get your way, which is not a big deal normally. But if you have two people competing for dominance in the relationship, neither is going to be willing to yield even if the disagreement was over something relatively insignificant. This is how you get those scenarios where two people are screaming at each other over how to correctly put dishes in a dishwasher. As long as the dishes come out clean, who cares? This does not mean letting someone walk all over you, and neither person in a relationship should tolerate bad behavior. The obvious question is "but why tell women to be submissive and not men?" The answer might have to do with things like sexual dimorphism, and how that traditionally relates to things like employment [which is more of a "big deal"].

[deleted] · 2014-05-12T03:33:23+00:00

I'm pretty sure almost all of our most vocal members are some form of atheist

MrsKittenHeel · 2014-05-12T03:44:12+00:00

Atheist here too :)

SweetPinkCuntCake · 2014-05-12T17:43:00+00:00

I would actually love to attend something like that! While I am an atheist, I do admire the Christian-style home hierarchy and values.

ddrluna · 2014-05-12T19:09:31+00:00

I do lean towards thinking that more traditional roles are helpful, and, under ideal conditions, are even preferable. But I'm certainly not going to judge anyone who wants to deviate from that lifestyle. I mean, if two parents both need to work to support their household, then that's just fine by me.

I really don't see the harm in suggesting that women be kind and show self-control, though. Ideally all people should ascribe to these values.

[deleted] · 2014-05-12T23:28:28+00:00

Pagan here! Most of us here are atheist, that's a fact.

Christianity really does focus on the family, which is something I can relate to regarding the religion. I really like it when they make a call to women to improve themselves and their marriages.

That being said, there are Christians who are very anti-gender roles just as there are Muslims who are against the sharia (I'm not adding "law" because sharia itself literally refers to the fact it's a law). Each person will interpret their religion (or lack thereof) differently, so each person will also look at relationship and sexual theory differently as well.

Title	Hi ladies. What do you all think of this church pamphlet?
Author	toysjoe
Upvotes	3
Comments	15
Date	May 12, 2014 2:45 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/25buf9/hi_ladies_what_do_you_all_think_of_this_church/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/hi-ladies-what-do-you-all-think-of-this-church.84486 https://theredarchive.com/post/84486

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