It's time to take control of this sub and turn things around. The forum now focuses on perpetuating a victimhood narrative, which is a major point of criticisms towards feminism.
r/MensRights is no longer a forum to discuss the MRM, and it hasn't been for a while. I am a long time poster on this sub and I like to think the posts I've made have been relevant to men's rights, exposing the mainstream lies of feminist movements, and generally pursuing truth and justice. However there has been a tonal shift on this forum and content now trends towards what I would describe as "rageboner" material. Essentially r/MensRights has become r/tumblrInAction 2.0. The sub has seen some massive growth in the past couple years and with that comes problems. Judging from the type of material reaching the front page it seems pretty clear that the average age in this sub has also trended towards younger members.
Just looking at the front page right now we have crossposts from r/dankmemes, r/tumblrinaction, and r/teenagers, and I commonly see these types of subs crossposted regularly.
The most common post I see on the front page right now is the following format:
xpost from "popular teenage subreddit"
facebook or twitter post with blurred user name
"men should all die or some other hateful quote"
number of upvotes or retweets (often 5 or less)
You might think this type of post is relevant to men's rights, but when the whole sub becomes this same thing over and over, it turns the forum into a joke. This should be a forum for advancing men's rights, not for propping up hateful points of view, many of which are probably trolls. You can find hateful views against any demographic online, you think r/feminism can't find any hateful quotes against women?
I also feel that many of the users here are dug into positions based on feelings rather than logic. This used to be a major differentiation between men's rights and feminism. Feminism was "feels before reals" and Men's Rights was statistics and logic. Now r/MensRights is essentially blowing these obscure online quotes up to get that feeling of oppression. There is no logic here, we're running off of feelings. "look this random internet user hates men, Reeee!" Sound familiar?
There is a small minority who still visits this sub and feels this way, but the majority of users are not on the same page so I don't expect this post to be popular. That said these are the changes I'd like to see:
- No more facebook/twitter/yahoo answers/tumblr posts from obscure, random, or unknown sources. These people are often insignificant and should not have a platform, especially on this sub.
- No more xposts from r/dankmemes, r/teenagers, or r/tumblrinAction.
- Limit the reposting. I swear that "Josie was drunk" poster has been on here 100 times.
I have faith that this sub can turn things around, but it's going to take work, especially from the moderators. There are plenty of forums available if you want to feel oppressed, but I believe r/mensrights should not be one of them and is worth saving.
[–]mgtowolf 12 points13 points14 points (18 children) | Copy Link
I suggest you bookmark sorted by new instead of touching the front page. Also reporting stuff like reposts and low value shit. We can't control who upvotes shit to the front page.
[–]Lethn 6 points7 points8 points (17 children) | Copy Link
Yep, this is just a classic case of an idiot reading the top threads and then judging the sub purely based on that instead of being the change they want to be, I've lost all sympathy for these sorts of whiners.
[–]genkernels 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Eh, Lethn, I think this is at least legit minus the headline.
When sorted by hot today, there's a lot of image posts up that are against the rules, and a lot of "someone's wrong on the internet" sort of posts, which while not offtopic per se, that are definitely...unproductive. Ultimately if people churn out that for karma, anyone trying to be the change you suggest will get drowned out. I've supplied links in the /r/MensRightsMeta/ topic, so this isn't a case of someone claiming something that can't be easily verified.
[–]genobeam[S] -5 points-4 points-3 points (15 children) | Copy Link
No. This forum often serves as the face of the mens rights movement. This used to be a place I was comfortable directing people who were interested in learning about the movement. Now this forum is more of an embarrasment, and I'd never tell people that this is representative of what the MRM is about. What shows up on the front page is important.
If you check my history I have posted plenty of the type of material I'd like to see. Way to judge without even glancing at my profile.
Also, this isn't whining, it's trying to improve the image of the MRM. If you think a subreddit that just constantly feeds trolls is something to be happy about, then I just have to disagree.
[–]mgtowolf 6 points7 points8 points (1 child) | Copy Link
We may boast 246k subs, but how many of those subs are active participants here? I would be surprised if it was 1000. Most people just upvote stuff they find funny, hence the front page. Ignore it, us active members do not decide our "front page".
[–]genobeam[S] -2 points-1 points0 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Things don't make the front page if people aren't upvoting them in new. I don't disagree that most users aren't super active but there seems to be a majority that believes the purpose of this sub is to just complain about minor bullshit
[–]Lethn 2 points3 points4 points (12 children) | Copy Link
The people that end up on the front page aren't 'trolls' they're deranged and potentially dangerous people who are giddy over the prospect of violence against men and consistently attack men over social media. They do it safe in the knowledge that the admins are on their side and the mods for their various subreddits will cover up and ban anyone who calls them out as well as delete posts.
If you don't think that's important to address, this sub isn't for you, the fact that you dismiss it as 'trolling' is pretty dumb, this is what feminists genuinely believe. This isn't a place for you to demand your own brand of pre-approved MRA issues and discussions.
If you want that, you may as well hop over to MensLib and see what you're proposing, a highly restricted environment where you can't possibly risk offending anyone because you'll just get immediately banned if you don't toe the party line that their feminist masters have dictated.
Having free speech means accepting the good as well as the bad viewpoints out there and yes, even opinions that one might consider as absolute trash, you don't seem to understand that which is why I'm accusing you of whining.
[–]genkernels 3 points4 points5 points (3 children) | Copy Link
Sure, I wouldn't call them trolls. But even so, the crux of an important part of /u/genobeam's argument here remains untouched, in my opinion. There are people who are deranged and giddy over the prospect of all kinds of evil. But it isn't in any way notable if it's some unupvoted anonymous crank on the internet, is it? That's the definition of low-effort material, am I wrong?
[–]Lethn -1 points0 points1 point (2 children) | Copy Link
He's not concerned about low effort material, let's be real here, he's decrying this sub and claiming it's got misogynists in it that need to be stamped out when that obviously isn't the case. We also need to define what 'low effort' actually is and I suspect my definition is completely different from his. The complaint about low effort posting is just to make you think he's someone reasonable with legitimate complaints rather than talking out of his arse.
He just come across as a run of the mill concern troll to me otherwise he wouldn't have spammed misogynist everywhere in a desperate attempt to smear the sub. We get posts like this frequently, it's always people who constantly tell us how concerned they are with the state of the sub and do you know what they all have in common? They constantly claim that the sub has an 'women hate' problem or it's filled with misogynists and there is simply no credibility to these claims because they refuse to provide evidence and when they do they look like idiots.
If he wants to have a discussion about low effort posts and spam great, but that's another topic, I'm more concerned with the fact that he's throwing the misogyny label around falsely and trying to go after the sub as a whole.
[–]genkernels 3 points4 points5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
No, that's not what's in his words. This guy isn't one of those low-effort concern trolls. Firstly, he's not calling out misogyny in his post. When he says
He's talking about feminist points of view. In other words he's saying "don't give these guys free rent in your head". He doesn't allude to misogyny at all as far as I can tell. His concern is about tilting at windmills.
More importantly, he's separated from run of the mill concern trolls by a few other factors:
He actually obeyed sub rules and posted to /r/mensrightsmeta. This alone puts him head and shoulders above the rest.
He actually has a history of participation in this sub that goes back at least 2 years.
He did original research in this sub (and that's not his only original research post IIRC).
He gave multiple examples (even if not directly): "Just looking at the front page right now we have crossposts from r/dankmemes, r/tumblrinaction, and r/teenagers"
And I could actually look at the front page and see what he was talking about.
Link me. I don't see this.
Sure, you've got it there. But it isn't like anything that criticizes the sub as a whole is wrong. I don't think you can disagree with what I think is the crux of what he's saying: there exist posts on the frontpage, that link low-visibility misandry for no other reason than to gawk. If one is to argue, it should be about whether that should qualify as low-effort and be removed.
[–]Lethn -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
Fuck I wasn't paying attention I admit and I had confused the two users, my bad on that, you're right I was talking about shithappenslol. The problem is too many of these people make the same bullshit claims about this sub that I honestly can't tell them apart anymore.
shithappenslol has clearly had most people disagreeing with him so I'll let that rest but honestly genobeam's comments are so fucking similar I get the feeling he's going to screech misogyny any second anyway because they always do when they don't get their way.
There is nothing wrong with crossposts, there is nothing wrong with hating feminists, his main contention about feminist posts is he claims they're just either rage bait or 'fake'. My point still stands and we shouldn't just censor topics purely because they get upvoted.
Now banning users who make frequent reposts and post shitty memes? Yes I actually think that should happen, because they're not contributing anything and aren't here for a discussion and there are already rules about that.
His main points don't seem to be really about spammers though, he's getting angsty about feminism which is why I confused him with the other poster screeching about misogyny. We can't do anything about feminism posts until feminists go away and stop harassing MRAs and attacking men constantly.
It really is that simple, so yes I'm still perfectly willing to put him in category of concern troll at this point and I'm absolutely tired of users who whine about this sub just because it doesn't fit their rigid gatekeeping of men's issues. I'm just fully expecting that when he inevitably doesn't get his way he's going to use the same accusations as everybody else, he's already screeching about how the sub is an embarrassment so I'm not going to be surprised by anything he does next.
These people are just acting like spoiled brats and trying to force everybody to do things their way rather than leaving people alone.
[–]genobeam[S] -5 points-4 points-3 points (7 children) | Copy Link
If I wanted to farm karma on r/mensrights I could easily create a fake online profile and make anti-male statements, blur out the profile and post them to this forum. That's like the definition of trolling. You think all these quotes are legit? And even if they are these are not mainstream views. If you think they are you're living in a bubble.
And how exactly are these people being "addressed"? The whole point of these types of posts is to serve as proof that men are hated so the members on here can feel oppressed. The point of this posts isn't to actually fix any issue.
I've looked at your history, it's basically "I should be able to say whatever I want! Censorship is evil!" And I'm for free speech, but this stuff is not advancing the MRM, it's just giving people the feelings they want to feel. It's distracting to the movement. Without moderation this forum can easily be hijacked. You describe any criticism of r/MensRights as "whining" and "concern trolling" but defend whiny "men are oppressed" posts in the name of free speech.
I've also been very critical of MensLib and Feminism and am currently banned from both for speeking out against them.
There's a difference between free speech and letting a forum get overrun by oppression porn. Moderation can be a good thing.
[–]Lethn 4 points5 points6 points (6 children) | Copy Link
No there isn't, you don't know what free speech is.
[–]genobeam[S] -1 points0 points1 point (5 children) | Copy Link
If you want tumblrinaction type posts there's a forum for that.
[–]Lethn 5 points6 points7 points (4 children) | Copy Link
There are plenty of other topics here that talk about serious issues as well, you are cherry picking and advocating for censorship.
[–]genobeam[S] 4 points5 points6 points (3 children) | Copy Link
I'm advocating for order. Without moderation subs this size are easily hijacked by people acting in bad faith. You are likening moderation to censorship in the same way people are likening "men suck" Facebook posts to oppression. These aren't ideas being censored, it's irrelevant distracting nonsense being removed from a forum it wasn't meant for.
[–]Lethn 4 points5 points6 points (2 children) | Copy Link
I frequently report genuine morons and spammers all the time on this sub, you're not advocating for order. You're trying to hijack the sub and declare what is 'legitimate' discussion about men's issues and what isn't.
It's not just people writing 'men suck' on facebook posts is it? It's feminists who are actually claiming that all men are abusers and rapists or talking constantly about how terrible men are.
You are actually lying and misrepresenting what is posted up on this sub now, if you really hate it here that much go and make your own damn sub. The way I see it the only reason people like you come out of the woodwork is because this sub is getting more and more popular and you want to put everyone here under your thumb.
I've seen this type of behaviour before and you lot always try and pretend to be innocent but what you are advocating for is nefarious, go make your own sub if you think you can do better and do some activism. Don't bitch at people because you're too lazy to build anything from scratch yourself.
[–]perplexedm 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
There should be an option to change the color or font size of thread titles depending on the content, flair, etc. That will increase visibility of topics of primary interest.
Lot of content is required to keep a sub like this where it can track general trends in mensrights, societal misandry, androphobia, also is part of it.
Memes are powerful tools which can convey messages simplistically and quick. Xpost those messages to r/mramemes , relevant ones to r/toxic_femininity
MRAs don't have social reach or acceptance in mainstream any where. So, things are not professional, organized, etc. as in feminism which is widely taught in universities.
Just complaining about world in general is not going to help, add some good content, work on it.
[–]problem_redditor 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
I pretty much agree. I've wanted to participate more here but there's progressively been less and less interesting discussion to take part in on this subforum other than rage-bait posts consisting solely of an image of a Tumblrina saying some dumb shit. I understand that it's somewhat inevitable that this kind of rage-bait would be the most upvoted content as it tends to grab people's attention more than some long, dry post full of links and writing, and I do think there is a place for them in this subreddit, but there's been a real proliferation of them recently to the near exclusion of everything else.
I understand why people here are incensed and angry and feel the need to vent with posts like these - hell, I'm exasperated as fuck with the state of things and I'm especially pissed off about how society sees it as acceptable and even desirable to promote these false and slanderous narratives about men - but I really would like to see users contributing more actual research and statistical evidence to this subreddit regardless. We're not going to get anywhere without that.
Oh, and before someone tells me something like "stop complaining, be the change you want to see", I have recently made some of my own contributions of the sort to the subreddit such as this post and this post. I would like to see other people doing the same.
TL;DR: moar text posts plox
[–]oafsalot 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
There is no win condition for you. You're going to get trolled, you're going to get debated by idiots, and you're going to get downvoted over and over again.
This sub isn't run by MRA's anymore. It's about time we accepted that and moved on.
[+][deleted] -11 points-10 points-9 points
(12 children) | Copy Link
This sub is more r/antifeminism than r/mensrights at the moment. It’s ruining the sub because 1.) most of the people on here don’t really know anything about actual feminism so there’s no worthwhile conversation to be had and 2.) it’s attracting a lot of actually misogynistic people.
Yknow how MGTOW is supposed to be for finding a life outside of society’s narrow expectations for men? And how the movement was ruined as it became just a neverending circlejerk about how bad and inferior Western women are?
Yeah that’s happening right here.
Edit: To clarify my previous comment, I am NOT stating that this sub is just another mgtow/braincels/trp. I’m saying that you guys need to face reality. There are horrible, disgusting people who label their horrible, disgusting beliefs as being a part of Men’s Rights. This problem is ubiquitous with any group/movement, not just MRM. Every movement/group has this issue where crazy people will label their crazy beliefs as being part of the movement/group to give their claims some validity. The Civil Rights Movement had these people, LGBTQ groups have these people. These people will ruin the MRM because they don’t actually care about men’s rights, they just want to spread their hateful vitriol to a wider audience.
You also need to understand the context of this sub, in that it is on the same platform as some of the worst cesspools on the internet. You also need to understand that if someone notices the same people in those subs posting here, there is no difference between that sub and this sub in their mind. You guys have got to spend more effort purposely distancing yourself from these groups because these groups are claiming that they are part of yours. Incels believe that they’re MRA, so does MGTOW, so does TRP.
To avoid this sub becoming another cesspool (it so easily could if the wrong people became mods), people who post on those shitty subreddits or have names alluding to those shitty subreddits should be prevented from participating on this sub.
[–]Lethn 8 points9 points10 points (10 children) | Copy Link
Post proof or fuck off with those claims.
[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points (9 children) | Copy Link
Took me less than a minute. The poster of this thread also posts in MGTOW and funnily enough in r/antifeminists.
[–]Lethn 6 points7 points8 points (6 children) | Copy Link
Every fucking time lol, yes these types of users don't belong to the sub and don't post very much in MRA anyway, I also love how you've linked a thread that's tiny, try again.
Edit: I also love how you're trying to brand somebody just for posting in MTGOW or antifemnists, that alone doesn't qualify somebody being misogynist.
[–][deleted] -5 points-4 points-3 points (5 children) | Copy Link
Have you seen the MGTOW sub? It’s comparable to braincels. And the point about antifeminists was just me pointing out that this sub will is turning into r/antifemists. I will admit that I just linked the first person I found but I found that dude in literally thirty seconds. He was the third user I looked at. You ever heard that saying about roaches? Yeah.
Also, you seem to think I’m some misandrists who’s here to undermine the whole movement and I’m not. I’m making valid points that you guys need to distance yourself away from these posters by publicly denouncing the crazy subreddits because these people are publicly claiming to be MRA.
[–]Lethn 2 points3 points4 points (4 children) | Copy Link
MTGOW users don't claim themselves to be MRAs in the slightest and we do disavow genuine misogynists here, but we disavow actual misogynists by our standards not simply people who upset you because they have opinions you don't approve of.
There's a big difference between actual misogyny and just you being offended and the fact that you used the predictable
Line really damages your credibility as anyone worth paying attention to because you'll probably start lecturing me about how feminism is for equality and people who criticise feminism just hate women.
Feel free to prove me wrong though.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
1.) Yes they do lol. I’ve seen people with usernames that are basically u./mgtow4lyfe commenting around here. I’ve seen people with MRA flairs on MGTOW and TRP.
2.) I don’t disagree with any content on this sub.
3.) I know nobody knows anything about feminism because everyone seems to think there is One Big Evil Feminism when in reality it’s a broad academic field with many different groups and beliefs. You guys pick the worst examples and act like it is a unanimous representation of all feminists everywhere. Which is ironic because this is exactly what you criticize other people of doing to the MRM. There are excellent criticisms of feminism that you guys are missing out on because you can’t get past this. The closest thing to this was the mod post about academia.
4.) There was a past MRM that never got anywhere because prolific misogynists publicly aligned themselves with the movement. Why do you think this isn’t gonna happen again? Why do you think what happened to MGTOW isn’t going to happen to this sub?
5.) if the MRM fails it will be because of people like you who actively suppress any valid criticism (which is again ironic because you guys say that feminists can’t take criticism). If you bury your head in the sand and ignore the context surrounding this sub on Reddit it’s going to fail for sure.
[–]Lethn 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
You keep using the word misogynist constantly and that's really starting to annoy me so I'm going to ask you a question now that will make you go away if you're full of shit.
Do you believe in the patriarchy?
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
I’m using misogyny because these people are actually misogynists. The term is defo overused but I can’t think of a better way to describe those kinds of people.
And no I don’t believe that the United States is currently a patriarchal society.
[–]Lethn 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Right, well if you don't believe in patriarchy then stop being an idiot and calling people misogynists when you've got no proof and especially don't go around accusing people in this sub as a whole or claiming there's some rampant epidemic here.
All you've done so far is run around spamming and desperately trying to convince me there are misogynists here and the evidence you've provided is laughable. Either learn to be civil or go away, you're the problem here, no one else.
[–]lostapwbm 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
Reposting what some woman wrote on Facebook = Misogyny.
My sides are in orbit right now. Thanks.
I will concede only that rampant image posting runs down the quality and conversation of any forum.
[–]genkernels 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
What's wrong with that post, other than that the poster mainly posts in MGTOW?
[–]mgtowolf 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
"Actual Feminism" lol. You mean the kind that don't really exist, but claims to fight for equal rights and men's rights too? Yeah, a good chunk of MRA were feminists first until they realized the PR claims made don't align with their actions and behavior.
[–]Clockw0rk -2 points-1 points0 points (1 child) | Copy Link
"You're allowed to feel oppressed, but don't do it here" - some clown, 2020
I'm not a fan of cross posting memes or rage bait from social media nobodies, but I respond to content I don't like by downvoting it.
We live in a world where people laugh off the MRM because they don't understand that men suffer (or they don't care, which makes them sociopaths, and fuck sociopaths, but I digress). The reality is that men do suffer, and this forum is plastered with the issues that men suffer from. It's rarely pretty.
You want to police what people can share about their suffering? Good luck. You'll just strangle what little life this place has out of it.
"Josie was drunk" is a common repost, but it's a valuable one. It's hard evidence of actual, institutional male oppression. That shit was planned by a committee who hired actors and a graphic designer in order to hammer home the point that men are responsible by default to acquire informed consent, while women aren't. The typical questions that follow that repost "If they were both drunk, how could he consent either?" never crossed the minds of the professional misandrists that organized that campaign in the first place. That's why that repost often gets thousands of upvotes, because even the casual subscribers and viewers from r/all can see what absolute bullshit it is. Hard evidence of double standards by public entities? Yes please, repost that shit everywhere. That's why many of us are fucking here.
[–]genobeam[S] -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
Imagine if r/feminism was just filled with quotes from random no name misogynists. Would you say that's a legitimate proof of suffering for women?