Ladies and gentleman, i seek your advice.

Fathernomore · 2019-09-14T09:36:35+00:00

Femi Ismail isn't about equal rights; feminism is about superior rights for women. Feminism is for excluding males from domestic violence shelters funding. Feminism is for unequal ridesharing in divorces involving children. Feminism is pro-alimony which is boggling if they truly feel women are equal to men. Alimony is basically institutionalized prostitution (you are paying money because the woman had sex with you). No, feminism is not about equality. It is about one group being better than another not for merit but for genetics. That makes it no better than racists.

flynny1026 · 2019-09-14T09:53:37+00:00

Tell them they missed the end of the definition of feminism. "Equal rights by the advocacy for women's rights". The first two words don't tell the full story and they aren't the sole definition.

Stevegracy · 2019-09-14T09:54:59+00:00

The original feminism achieved their goals a long time ago. What they've turned into since then is an abomination. They are addicted to victimhood and look for opportunities to be offended at every turn. They no longer seek equality, they want special treatment. And they think the only way to bring women up is to tear men down. We are their enemies, especially the white ones. And they have no problem saying that publicly. Calling for the genocide of white males. I should've started with that. Any group who does that kind of shit doesn't have the best interests of men in mind. Period.

m0mmyneedsabeer · 2019-09-14T13:11:30+00:00

Tell them that if feminism is about equality, then they should also support the rights of men. Women's rights and men's rights are subcategories of human rights and we all should support human rights.

LettuceBeGrateful · 2019-09-14T17:38:19+00:00

I think we need a concise list of easily provable inequalities. An obvious, US-based starting point is:

Selective service is male-only.
Only women have the right to genital integrity.
Legally, straight men who are forced into sex are not raped.
In some states, male-on-female assault is a worse crime than any other gender combination.
The Duluth model, the most common DV-intervention program in the country, assumes that "men are encouraged and expected to control their partners." This results in male abuse victims being twice as likely as their abusers to be arrested.
A gender sentencing gap six times larger than the racial sentencing gap. In the UK,
There are currently only two (?) men's DV shelters, despite men comprising almost half of DV victims, and 70% of non-reciprocal victims.
The PPACA provides many services to women for free, including DV screening and counseling. For some reason, DV counseling is not provided to all adults. Also, here is the page for men: https://i.imgur.com/UnXZ2ZK.png

Several of these issues (Duluth model, see wikipedia page; definition of rape, see Mary Koss) can be traced directly back to feminism, should someone claim that feminism has nothing to do this with this list, or that "feminism is for men too." Several other inequalities (genital integrity, selective service) are legally permissible only because women's groups torpedoed the Equal Rights Amendment in the 1970's.

HakeemTheDreamK · 2019-09-17T12:10:45+00:00

In all honesty I don't think you should be asking for us to give you an argument. If you truly believe there is a reason, and that it is better, you need to form the argument yourself. It's the only way for it to be authentic. Take the information you've gathered from researching modern and historical feminism, as well as the men's rights movements and construct your own opinions given the facts you gathered

2019-09-14T09:58:30+00:00

Me personally I am more of an advocate for human and children's rights as opposed to gender specific rights.

I also support gender specific rights as they can be a vehicle for highlighting disparity.

So why do we need gender specific rights forums and what are good arguments as justification for their existence?

I think many issues we face are gender specific and being able to share our experiences concerning this has value from a support and learning perspective.

Our current era being one of protracted world peace and rapidly expanding access to information and communication has magnified our capacity for awareness. Our world has changed so significantly that we feel the need to reexamine what our purpose is, what it could be or what it should be.

Historically males of all ages were essentially cannon fodder in war effort and that has been our place since the dawn of time. Protector, bread winner, not permitted to have emotion other than bravery, anger and hate for others. Men's or male rights are important as we redefine purpose outside of dying early.

iainmf · 2019-09-14T10:55:58+00:00

The Men's Rights Movement is needed whether feminism exists or not. Each movement should be judged independently on the strength of its arguments and actions.
Men have their human rights violated and are discriminated against so there is a need for the MRM.
Women also have their rights violented and are discriminated against so they need advocates as well.
However, feminism isn't just advocacy for women, it's an ideology that needs to be judged on its ideas.

EricAllonde · 2019-09-14T11:26:37+00:00

Men's rights is a fact-based movement working to achieve specific goals, most importantly equal legal rights for men.

Feminism is a feelings-based ideology. With no specific goals to pursue, it has devolved into whining about trivialities (e.g. mansplaining) and general hatred about men.

The leading feminists, the ones milking their gullible followers for significant incomes, are desperate to keep the ideology going despite the fact that it achieved its goals (legal abortion, equal rights & equal opportunities for women) way back in the 1970s.

To keep successfully flogging the dead horse, those leading feminists need to keep women convinced that they remain oppressed, despite the obvious fact that they are not and in fact women enjoy ever-increasing levels of affirmative action and other benefits & privileges every year.

So each year they lower the bar to insist that women are weaker, more pathetic and have less agency, in order to support the oppression narrative. That why we're now at the point where women's relative disinterest in engineering, software development and mining is supposedly explained by 8 year old girls being called "bossy" a single time. There always has to be an oppression boogeyman to rail against, even if he's harder & harder to find...

the_m3me_monster · 2019-09-14T14:13:33+00:00

Dude I’m thirteen and I speak out against feminism too lol

didnotreddit12 · 2019-09-15T05:19:34+00:00

I like this sub because it's not become toxic. (Hopefully it doesn't).

2019-09-14T12:36:57+00:00

the problem is, feminism was supposed to be for equality, but now the bad outweighs the good

Karissa36 · 2019-09-14T11:17:51+00:00

I don't really see feminism as absurd, just that a minority of some very vocal outliers have taken it to absurd levels as occurs in many groups. This does not prevent me from supporting Men's Rights, which also by the way has a minority of very vocal outliers taking it to absurd levels. So I suggest that you don't try to frame this as a black and white issue like some caveman grunting "Feminism bad -- Men's Rights good".

Instead try asking them some questions. Should the NAACP disband and join the ACLU instead? How about the Southern Law Poverty Project? Should they disband and join the ACLU instead? What about the Black Lives Matter group? Why aren't they just part of the NAACP? Or the ACLU? They are all working towards the same goals -- protection of civil rights.

I personally am much more fond of the Southern Law Poverty Project than I am of the ACLU. That doesn't mean I hate the ACLU, it means that the Southern Law Poverty Project is more aligned with my specific interests. I don't really care for example whether or not there might be some holdover Christian symbol in an older public school. Time will inevitably change that as new schools are built.

I do care very much about the civil rights of very poor people and most specifically about the rights of people accused and/or convicted of crimes and even more specifically about convicted people facing the death penalty which I do not agree with. Partly because I am a lawyer, that is where my interest lies. That is where I can have the most impact. I don't see anything wrong with that and it is not a diss to the ACLU if I follow my specific interests.

Frame it like that and the arguments against you should be over.

aaronmajjor · 2019-09-14T15:18:12+00:00

You seem really misguided. I’m only a year younger than you and also a male but you seem to base your beliefs off of what you’ve seen extremist sjws do. Ironically, it seems to be that your perspective of feminism is botched more than a liberals. Feminism is about equality for both genders, you’ve just rewritten it because of biased hand picked videos and experiences most likely. Feminism is not really absurd because then that would mean that you think egalitarianism is absurd, which I doubt you believe. It seems really rational if you’re aiming to improve the well-being of the state. Men’s rights is quite similar to the all lives matter thing. The reason why women are specifically targeted in feminism is because women tend to and originally experienced more extreme and damaging conditions than men. That is not to say that men do not have worrisome issues, however, women tend to be more of focus since women tend to be at higher rates for violence and discrimination. You are essentially the equivalent to an sjw. Sjws focus on women’s rights and this subreddits focuses on men’s rights. Both sides are extremist and heavily biased. By asking for why your belief is good, you seem to further this conclusion and feed on your confirmation bias. You can congratulate yourself for being as much as an sjw each time you do something like this. An interesting streamer/debater would be Destiny. Hes a fairly intelligent man with articulate and interesting view points. He’s centrist so don’t worry he’s not gonna pull an extremist “all men should die” view but hopefully you can understand him better than what I’m saying rn.

Title	Ladies and gentleman, i seek your advice.
Author	grandpa_stalin_37
Upvotes	34
Comments	31
Date	September 14, 2019 9:27 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/d431mh/ladies_and_gentleman_i_seek_your_advice/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/ladies-and-gentleman-i-seek-your-advice.869143 https://theredarchive.com/post/869143

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