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Idk if this belongs here or not, but if anything I feel like men have to hide their emotions more.

Vault21_

August 22, 2019
115 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://i.redd.it/mkz3v8hdtzh31.jpg
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Title Idk if this belongs here or not, but if anything I feel like men have to hide their emotions more.
Author

Vault21_

Upvotes 115
Comments 42
Date August 22, 2019 12:21 PM UTC
(6 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/ctwnxc/idk_if_this_belongs_here_or_not_but_if_anything_i/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/idk-if-this-belongs-here-or-not-but-if-anything-i.870707
https://theredarchive.com/post/870707
Top posts by Vault21_

You gotta be kidding me

768 upvotes
April 9, 2019
/r/MensRights

Just spreading the word. Would like to see something positivity come out of this

12 upvotes
November 19, 2019
/r/MensRights

r/Feminism almost immediately deleted my post in which I simply wished them a happy mens day, told them where they can go to get some info and shared the pinned picture that has stats about the issues men face. We cant let people walk all over men when they try to voice their issues.

3 upvotes
November 19, 2019
/r/MensRights

Comments

[–]iainmf 50 points51 points52 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wait, isn’t this ‘toxic masculinity’?

[–]vorpalraven 27 points28 points29 points 6 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

But I thought displaying emotion was a virtue, no? Why bother hiding the fact that you're crying? That's such a male thing to do... /s

[+][deleted] -14 points-13 points-12 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Masculinity =/= man

[–]Only2DaysLeft 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

What is masculinity?

[+][deleted] -6 points-5 points-4 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Everyone has a slightly different interpretation, for me it covers bravery, fearlessness, risk taking, protective instinct. But men and women both have them, men often display them more. Just like typically feminine characteristics like nurturing, caring, more emotional etc are possessed by men and women alike. We're all a blend because some stuff is nature and then we're influenced by nurture

[–]Only2DaysLeft 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Why create gendered categories of characteristics if everybody displays them?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's about the ratios, but in general I think the categories are problematic because people are more complicated than that. For instance if we assume all women are caring, we aren't willing to believe they could be abusive. It's just stereotyping. Take humans at face value, but people should be allowed to be who they are

[–]Zekuro 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

It depends on the dictionary, but definitions of masculinity go from :

the characteristics that are traditionally thought to be typical of or suitable for men

to

the properties characteristic of the male sex

Sure, we can tell ourselves masculinity or femininity is just about a set of values that for some reason we decided to make gendered. But that's just not how the definition go.

Definition wise, while saying masculinity == man is wrong, it's still very close...

By the way, I dislike the words masculinity and femininity. They just perpetuate stereotypes and don't represent people at all. Though, I should rather say I don't believe in them rather that saying I dislike them. But trying to change the definition of the words to make them more coherent with my worldview isn't the way to go. It just creates misunderstandings with people.

For example...Toxic masculinity. I strongly dislike those words. At some point, there will always someone saying "masculinity =/= man, it's not an attack on men!". Sure, not in my dictionary though.

Of course, I'm always open to having my mind changed. Maybe I'm reading the definitions wrongly and there really is little relation between masculinity and men.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I agree, I do think that you see many more masc. characteristics in men and fem characteristics in women. Stereotypes are that way for a reason. But that doesn't mean masculine traits (whatever those even are, I doubt even here we could agree on them) equal men.

It's just "all or nothing thinking" that's important to stay away from in my opinion. All men are this, all women must do this blah blah. Humans are prone to all or nothing thinking especially when they are stressed, threatened or frightened, if a lion is approaching you, you don't have time to debate the meaning of life, you have to make a instant snap decision on what to do. But we use this in the modern day far too much. It's easy but it's lazy, we can't neatly compartmentalise humans, there will always be many exceptions.

I am suspicious of masc/fem traits because it's verrry hard to separate what is biological and what is cultural. Therefore I think it's more important to remain open minded and allow each individual their own definition.

Expecting people to behave in a certain way just because they were born a certain gender, colour, whatever, is a recipe for depression and sadness on this earth.

[–]Zekuro 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

As I said, I don't believe in masculinity and femininity, so it seems like you are arguing against a claim I never made.

But just because I believe a concept is wrong doesn't give me the right to just ignore it. For example, if there is a philosophical concept I don't agree with but by changing its definition it would be something I agree with doesn't mean I can change its definition in my head. Here, I don't agree with the concept of masculinity but I can't just go and change the definition of masculinity. The reason being that for people to be able to communicate with each other they need common definitions and those definitions can be found in dictionnaries. I gave two definitions in my previous comments and both roughly agree that masculinity and men are closely related if not equivalent.

I don't believe in masculinity as a concept but if I see someone using it I'm assuming he roughly knows the definition in the dictionary and is using it as intended (at least, in a serious discussion). That's also why I never use the word masculinity or femininity outside of an argument to explain how much I dislike those words.

TLDR : when I see written "masculinity =/= man" and I replace masculinity by a definition found in a dictionary it becomes "the properties characteristic of the male sex =/= man".

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I’m not arguing against you dude, just adding to it/offering an opposing view.

I really do see what you’re saying and I think we’re mainly in agreement anyway. Masculinity as you say are traits associated with men, but as they are a bunch of things that people often can’t agree on, it’s not the equal to what men are. I’m saying they’re more than some decided traits.

[–]Zekuro 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Okay, sorry I misunderstood. The way you phrased it made it sound like you were answering me.

[–]RockmanXX 15 points16 points17 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There is absolutely no logical consistency within the feminist line of thought, they work on child's logic.

[–]Rethgil 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Feminists tell men to 'show their emotions more'.

What they really mean is 'Show me more happy feelings and agreeing with my feelings-any other feelings are negative and will be classed as Toxic'.

Men face an attack on two fronts. We're supposed to show more-but get attacked if what we show doesnt make feminists happy.

[–]RockmanXX 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

We're supposed to show more-but get attacked if what we show doesnt make feminists happy.

WrongThink!! sigh I miss the days when 1984 wasn't a reality.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

In the same breadth "MEN DON'T SHOW THEIR EMOTIONS BECAUSE OF TOXIC MASCULINITY!"

Feminism, taking non-gendered issues and making them gendered in order to harass Men and Boys since the dawn of friggin time.

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points25 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They sit in their husbands car.

[–]tenchineuro 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Maybe I would be surprised, but she did not post the number of times.

[–]yg111 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Awwww so BRAVE!

[–]The_Eraser123 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Fuck off 😂 women will literally cry anywhere

[–]MeatyDogFruit 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Kinda pissed. Men are in an environment all the time where they must be “strong” and avoid emotions. We REALLY have to hide our emotions.

[–]Lethn -5 points-4 points-3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Where's your proof?

[–]pullingsneakies 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

To all the comments saying toxic masculinity I disagree because everyone might need a few moments to let it out where it isn't ideal to be seen emotional and the ending where it says women are some of the most resilient creatures its true but that's what humans are after all. I completely agree with that quote even if its just aimed for women as its audience.

[–]Blutarg 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You are so right.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

TOXIC masculinity no?

[–]Lethn -4 points-3 points-2 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

If you seriously are a man and you think you 'can't' cry in front of people that is an issue with you and your own insecurity. This has nothing to do with men generally, stop peddling this bullshit as a gender issue.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Except generally when men openly cry and show their sadness they're just told to grow a pair and deal with it or called weak.

[–]Lethn -4 points-3 points-2 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Where's your evidence? Because the people I've seen who make fun of men the most are feminists and actually women generally tend to hate men crying.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Why are you arguing? You just said people have men crying. That's the issue.

[–]Lethn -5 points-4 points-3 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Because people like you keep aggressively peddling this as if it's a major issue that men face, crying won't get a dad equal custody, it won't prevent a guy from committing suicide, it won't clear a man falsely accused of rape and sexual assault.

I don't dismiss it altogether as an issue, but the way people keep bringing it up so much is ridiculous, stop trying to claim that men have to 'hide their emotions' constantly or my personal favourite they 'can't express themselves'. I have completely lost my patience for this bullshit, I glanced over your post history, you've seen this shit posted up before, why are you trying to hard to push for this?

You're acting like it's some sort of widespread problem that will fix men, it isn't.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

What post history? I very rarely post here. Unless my post history of regularity discussing rap and memes is offending you for some reason I don't see the issue.

And after having a little peek at your posts, why are you obsessed with roasting feminists? Like yeah I agree they're not great but your pretty hung up on it. Also you have an entire post complaining about people not liking what you think, c'mon bud.

[–]Lethn -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

How dare I take on an ideology that openly hates me for having a dick and being born white, I really don't need to justify my hatred of feminists given the amount of brigading that they take part in here. Again, like anyone pushing this shit, you refuse to even address the real issues that men go through and keep pretending that 'men crying' is all they have to be concerned about.

I would have not had a single problem with you bringing this up if you acknowledged all the other shit men go through but you won't even recognise how incredibly patronising it is to boil down men's issues to "They need to cry more". I'll correct myself on your post history I mistook you for somebody else and that's my bad, however one glance through this sub and it's easy to see this viewpoint has been posted up before, it really isn't difficult to find.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Again, I said I'm not a fan of feminism however I also dont feel the need obsess over them and make a parade of posts about them, but I agree with you on some things. They're really not great.

And trust me I'm not boiling down all the problems to "men should cry" I know you may think that based on this post/interaction. But trust me I'm very passionate about the issues men face, and I would agree this one may seemingly one of the smaller issues, but to me at least it's still important and is worth talking about.

[–]Lethn 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

But it isn't important, you know the most ironic thing about you posting this up as if it's just generically 'society' that forces men to hide their emotions? It's feminists that are the first to mock and attack men who do express themselves and do talk about their issues.

Where do you think all these incel loser virgin posts come from? I've got news for you, it's not men though let's be real many male feminists love taking part in this as well purely because they want to virtue signal about what good boys they are to their female ideological counterparts.

If you want to discuss this as an issue, okay, but more often than not I've seen people who don't even identify with feminism carefully avoid the fact that it is feminists who are always the first to attack men who dare to speak up about anything even when it doesn't involve feminists being cunts to them at all.

I'm not going to let people craft a narrative around 'men expressing themselves' that revolves around blaming other men or pretending that feminists and women generally don't have a part to play in this shit as well. You can virtue signal that you're not a fan of feminism all you want, I don't care about that, what I care about is the narrative you seem to be crafting along with a lot of other people which tends to revolve around "Let's blame other men for this".

As for men crying more itself, again, no one answers this properly, what exactly does crying solve? It won't fix any of the problems men face especially if there are so many turds out there who are ready to jump in and stop people from solving these problems and making their lives better.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Man I really dont see this being a good use of either of our times, I'm not denying women play a part in forcing men to hide their emotions though, if anything I'd agree with that statement. And your right, crying isnt realistically gonna solve any issues, however it helps you get some emotions of your chest when things get too overwhelming for someone to handle, it's a natural human thing, and while it may not solve the issue it's a normal part of coping.

[+][deleted] -8 points-7 points-6 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

It doesn’t say men don’t, make your own if you want

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

The fact that I'm getting downvoted says far more about y'all than it does about the comment. Yes men are expected to hide their emotions more but there are many cultures and traditions that frown upon displays of emotion and we all feel it. I'm female, but I'd never cry in front of my co-workers, however there have been times where I've waited until lunch and then cried in private. People hate people crying but it's a valuable biological function. It releases emotion. Did you know that tears cried for different reasons look different under a microscope? I do think a man crying is more difficult for many people to handle, women are allowed to express their experience as well though, this is just whataboutism, plain and simple. Honestly, I'm not being salty with my comment, you should make one for men and share it on social media. That would make a positive impact. The trouble is you guys say it's hard for you to express your emotions but then lots of comments say that men shouldn't be crying and that they don't need to talk or seek help. However, in a diverse group of course you're going to get a difference of opinion and that is perfectly natural and should be respected

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You're on the wrong sub.

[–]RockmanXX 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

She's one of those "concern trolls".

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

a person who disingenuously expresses concern about an issue with the intention of undermining or derailing genuine discussion

No, I genuinely care about men's rights. I've learnt so much while I'm on here and to me it seems like a crisis situation. One I care about deeply because of the men in my life that I love. All I suggested was that a male equivalent would be really good and we could all share it to raise awareness. Sorry for suggesting something productive, I'll leave you to carry on complaining and not doing anything

[–]RockmanXX 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

So you are a woman! Just like i told you in my last reply, women don't know what its like to be a man, so stop pretending to have some sort of telepathic empathy with Men.

The trouble is you guys say it's hard for you to express your emotions

For the last time, we DO NOT want to expose our emotional weakness to an anti-male society! Not expressing our weakness to the society prevents Society from hurting us further.

Honestly, I'm not being salty with my comment, you should make one for men and share it on social media

This OP is praising women for hiding emotions But when men do that its called "Toxic Masculinity" Feminist hypocrisy at its best.

that they don't need to talk or seek help.

I think you're strawmanning one of my arguments. I said that men shouldn't be blamed for not "Seeking help" because the Society is NOT offering any help. Just enough of this "Seek help" nonsense, Society needs to reach out to Men first, like how women's XYZ issuse awareness campaigns work.

Point#2 I also said that "talking" about problems to others doesn't bring some "emotional catharsis" to men, like it seens to do for Women.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Dude how can I be strawmanning your arguments when you're responding to what I've said? I think you're confusing me for someone else

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