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Woman admits killing husband by throwing knife at him when he was late home

MRA-Sid

March 20, 2019

128 upvotes

/r/MensRights

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/woman-admits-killing-husband-throwing-14160573.amp?

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Title	Woman admits killing husband by throwing knife at him when he was late home
Author	MRA-Sid
Upvotes	128
Comments	51
Date	March 20, 2019 2:17 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/b3ck2j/woman_admits_killing_husband_by_throwing_knife_at/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/woman-admits-killing-husband-by-throwing-knife-at.881328 https://theredarchive.com/post/881328

Comments

[–]Razorbladekandyfan 24 points25 points26 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]mtcapri -4 points-3 points-2 points 7 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[–]tenchineuro 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

Seems to me that she had a clear intent to harm and a reckless disregard for the damage she caused.

No, it's not clear at all.

So what constitutes intent to harm in your book? And what constitutes disregard for the damage caused?

Now, if she had fired a gun into his chest instead of thrown a knife, I'd say it would have been much more clear

Yeah, he might have been dead had she fired a gun. But by your reading of the context, you'd still claim it was done in anger, so I really don't see any difference here.

It turns out that she threw the knife from very close range.

But a knife?

It was the weapon she had available.

Nah, she quite easily could have simply thought it wouldn't come close to actually killing him.

Or conversely, she could have trying to injure or kill him. I don't see how anyone could deny this as the blatantly obvious possibility, but here we are. Or do women do that sort of thing?

[–]mtcapri -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

So what constitutes intent to harm in your book?

It's not about "my book," it's about the law. Intent refers to premeditation (or "aforethought"), which means you planned it out in advance, even if by just a few seconds. The prosecution has to prove with evidence that this was the case beyond a reasonable doubt.

And what constitutes disregard for the damage caused?

It's "extreme, reckless" disregard, not mere disregard. I would imagine that if she dropped a piano on him, even in a moment of blind rage, that would constitute extreme, reckless disregard for life. More realistic example? Hitting him with a car.

Yeah, he might have been dead had she fired a gun. But by your reading of the context, you'd still claim it was done in anger, so I really don't see any difference here.

The difference I suspect would matter is that the lethality of firing a gun at someone is pretty common knowledge—too common for her to even remotely think she wouldn't risk killing him by doing so. But yeah, possibly still manslaughter. Murder is hard to prove.

Or conversely, she could have trying to injure or kill him. I don't see how anyone could deny this as the blatantly obvious possibility, but here we are. Or do women do that sort of thing?

In a court of law, you have to prove things. If you can't, you don't win your case. Prosecutors have to pick charges they're confident they can prove or they risk their perps walking.

[–]tenchineuro -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

It's not about "my book," it's about the law. Intent refers to premeditation (or "aforethought"), which means you planned it out in advance

No, it does not. You are conflating intent into premeditation.

https://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=995
n. mental desire and will to act in a particular way, including wishing not to participate. Intent is a crucial element in determining if certain acts were criminal. ... Example: lack of intent may reduce a charge of manslaughter to a finding of reckless homicide or other lesser crime.

She threw a laptop and a knife at him, she clearly intended to harm him.

In a court of law, you have to prove things.

Sometimes, but had she accused him of rape no proof of any kind would be required. her unsupported word would be sufficient for conviction.

[–]mtcapri 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Alright, you're technically correct about the conflation of terms, but it doesn't change my view.

In U.K. law, involuntary manslaughter is defined as:

Involuntary manslaughter occurs when the agent has no intention (mens rea) of committing murder, but caused the death of another through recklessness or criminal negligence. The crime of involuntary manslaughter can be subdivided into two main categories: constructive manslaughter and gross negligence manslaughter. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manslaughter#English_law)

Whereas murder requires malicious intent (mens rea).

The key question is whether or not the woman intended to kill the victim, and given that the act was done in the height of passion, it could easily be argued she didn't think the knife wound she intended to cause would kill him.

In English law, there are only two exceptions to the intent requirement for murder, and they both involve either multiple victims or multiple assailants (transferred malice): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_English_law#Transferred_malice

Intent to harm him is not enough for a murder conviction; you must prove intent to kill. Manslaughter is therefore the better charge here, meaning the one more likely to get a conviction.

Sometimes, but had she accused him of rape no proof of any kind would be required. her unsupported word would be sufficient for conviction.

How is that relevant to this case?

[–]Arizth 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Why would you throw a KNIFE at someone if you aren't intending grevious harm or death?

A knife is a severing implement and, when properly cared for, can very easily slice flesh and even damage bone. If I threw a knife at someone, I damn well intend for them to get it stuck in their chest.

I could see you making this argument if she threw, for example, a ladle or spoon. Even a small pot, since those are all blunt kitchen implements and have to hit a very specific spot to kill someone.

But a knife? A knife is like 80 percent lethal or potentially lethal surfaces. Even a grazing hit with a good knife has a chance to nick an artery, and that's usually a death sentence.

I mean, here's an easy way to understand this. Grab a watermelon, step ten feet away, and hurl your ring of keys at it. You'll see some nasty damage to the watermelon.

Scale that up, and you get human plus sharp kitchen knife.

[+]mtcapri -6 points-5 points-4 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Arizth 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]mtcapri 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]antilopes -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

My impression is US sentences are often about double those of other English speaking countries. That is just from a quick comparison, don't quote me.

Unless the knife is exceptionally sharp at the tip and/or heavy it is almost impossible to penetrate like that by throwing. Most people's knives are blunt at the tip end due to cutting on plates.

Even with a suitable knife it would be an extremely unlucky throw to slip through the narrow gap between the ribs and cause a fatal heart injury. Much more likely she stabbed him, but it can't be proven beyond all doubt.

As in the US sentences are often plea bargained down. It is not at all surprising to see this plea bargained down, it is common for men too.
In the UK murder requires either intent to kill or some degree of recklessness about causing death. It is common for stabbing deaths in fights to be charged as manslaughter not murder, because if it is charged as murder the court is likely to be forced to accept a highly implausible defence as not impossible, thus not guilty.

Australia has a looser definition of murder at least in some states. In NZ it is quite tight. Evidence of advance planning is often used to prove intent, since intent to kill is hard to prove in a brief fight.

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