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UK Rugby players found Not Guilty of Rape, except in the Feminist Court of Public Opinion

iburiedmyshovel

April 14, 2018
194 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/brutal-rape-trial-ireland-highlights-power-athletes-still-wield-he-ncna861656?cid=db_pd_nn_ky_tk_180305&kwp_0=755446
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Title UK Rugby players found Not Guilty of Rape, except in the Feminist Court of Public Opinion
Author

iburiedmyshovel

Upvotes 194
Comments 37
Date April 14, 2018 10:02 AM UTC
(8 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/8c6na6/uk_rugby_players_found_not_guilty_of_rape_except/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/uk-rugby-players-found-not-guilty-of-rape-except.902839
https://theredarchive.com/post/902839
Red Pill terms in post
feminist
Top posts by iburiedmyshovel

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Comments

[–]SwampMidget 49 points50 points51 points 8 years ago* (13 children) | Copy Link

Time and again we see these false rape cases from feminist "activists" (ie emotionally unbalanced attention seekers). The fake Duke Lacrosse rape case, Rolling Stone's fake fraternity gang rape story, this fake UK Rugby rape case ... all of these incidents hurt the lives of good men with false charges made simply for attention. In all these egregious cases, the woman is never held to account for making false claims.

I, for one, demand equal treatment of the sexes. If an adult fabricates provably false allegations against an innocent person, they should be sent to prison.

[–]Lethn 13 points14 points15 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

This is why it was so important that the feminist activist in charge of the prosecution service was removed. We need to keep this up with other areas as well, target the prosecutors, target politicians, hell if there's a feminist sitting on a committee somewhere I want to see them exposed for the liars and fanatics they are.

Once that happens, I think the police especially will no longer be as scared fo them and will be more willing to protect people falsely accused and investigate fairly.

[–]RacelessSexlessName 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Except they're just going to replace her with another her...

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not going to be easy, but you've got to try.

[–]tenchineuro 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is why it was so important that the feminist activist in charge of the prosecution service was removed. We need to keep this up with other areas as well, target the prosecutors, target politicians, hell if there's a feminist sitting on a committee somewhere I want to see them exposed for the liars and fanatics they are.

Nice. Upvoted.

Law needs to be about protecting the actual victims, not the women.

[–]iburiedmyshovel[S] 26 points27 points28 points 8 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

Sometimes it is for attention, like the Columbia mattress girl. And in those cases civil suits of defamation are justified. I would support misuse of government services (whatever the legal jargon equivalent may be) as criminal charges. There are likely others that apply. But there would have to be a high burden of proof, because I do think it's important actual rape victims can come forward.

On the other hand, I don't think this is one of those instances. From the research I gathered, it seems this girl didn't have malicious intent. I think she got in over her head. I think she believed she was living out a fantasy, and then after performing the act, she felt immediate regret and remorse. I think she was more complacent in the act, than actively involved. She wasn't emotionally or mentally prepared for that level of promiscuity. Still, she consented to the act by engaging in it. Her feelings afterward led her to believe it was wrong, and she post-interpreted the act as rape by applying her mental state during/after the act as representative of her actions, rather than holding herself accountable for her actual actions. I think that is also the result of the pervasiveness of feminist ideology and society, that teaches women they have no agency. It's evident in the way she recounts the event in messages, like how "next thing [she] was bent over the bed." She doesn't explain how that happened, that she tried to stop it or any action on her part, and most glaringly, how she managed to perform oral sex on a second man at the same time. She says she rejects a third guy from joining, which is when, I think, she put into perspective what she was doing, and felt slutty/ashamed/used. Because she regretted it, and feminism has taught her she has no ability to act, that she doesn't engage in sex, but sex happens to her, passively (hence the idea of progressive consent), she truly believed she was raped.

She just doesn't understand that that isn't what rape is. I empathize with her. She engaged in a sex act she wasn't mentally prepared for. She was taken advantage of by men who should know better. They didn't commit an illegal act. But they certainly didn't treat her with care or kindness. They just didn't realize that she wasn't the promiscuous sex crazed girl they thought she was and that she agreed to play, rather than the inexperienced 19 year old girl who was in over her head without realizing it.

I empathize with both parties here. I can see how being young and with famous athletes would lead you to make sexual decisions that would ultimately be emotionally and mentally harmful. And i can also see how famous athletes would just think they were having a lighthearted good time that was harmless.

Ultimately, regardless of the ethics involved, there was no rape committed. In a way, they're both victims of feminism. I wouldn't recommend jail for her because she didn't have malicious intent. She thought she was wronged in a criminal manner. She was taught the law should protect her emotions. She thought the law protected her from her own personal responsibility. These men, on the other hand, are now perpetual victims of feminists, who will hold them accountable for a crime they didn't commit, likely ruining their careers and public image. All in the name of cementing rape culture and patriarchy as pervasive enemies, to justify feminists existence and continuous victimhood in their bid for more power.

[–]bastardstepchild 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

she doesn’t understand that that isn’t what rape is

And considering how prevalent articles like TFA are, you can hardly blame her. If feminists cared about actual victims, rather than just hating and punishing men for being men, they’d go out of their way to agree on an unambiguous definition of rape.

[–]tenchineuro -3 points-2 points-1 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

So then you don't have any problems with false rape accusations per se, and apparently, like feminists, think that they cause no harm and that women making them should face no jeopardy for sundry and irrelevant reasons and have absolutely no responsibility for the harm they and only they caused?

I've seen this kind of argument from feminists a lot. And the requirement for provable malice is simply a guarantee that she gets off scott free while the life of the man involved lays in ruin by that woman's hand.

Basically, you post is a vote for the status quo. Good job.

[–]backthefuckupbitch 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Why is this downvoted?

[–]iburiedmyshovel[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

I didn't have time to explain earlier, but I'm home from work, so here goes...

First, I do take issue with false rape accusations, in and of themselves. It should be glaringly obvious since I posted the article. Regarding the "cause no harm" perspective mistakenly foisted upon me, let me quote myself:

These men, on the other hand, are now perpetual victims of feminists, who will hold them accountable for a crime they didn't commit, likely ruining their careers and public image.

Just yesterday I wrote a lengthy reply on Facebook about this article, recalling the Duke lacrosse case from 2006, as well as the recent UK cases that involved the withholding of evidence that would exonerate the accused, and finally a third UK case in which a boy killed himself over the harm false allegations caused him (whose mother subsequently killed herself). I also recently posted to a friend's page, who was requesting advice to pass along to her college-bound son, about the dangers of college sex - about title IX, kangaroo courts, the sexist application of consent laws, etc. I'm very much educated about the detriment false allegations cause the accused, and am passionate about advocating for change by educating others.

However, there are three types of false allegations: false with malicious intent, false through intentional deceit, and false through misapplication of the law. The first is done to cause harm to the accused, indeed, the actual victim. The second is done to deflect responsibility/accountability from the accuser, but without the purpose of harming the accused; rather, the accused is a casualty of the accuser's selfish agenda. The third is this case, where the accuser truly believes she's been raped, although the event in question doesn't meet the scrutiny of the legal definition of rape.

Obviously, the first two deserve punitive recompense. I advocate for a high burden of proof, however, because the third case should not result in criminal charges, and I believe it is worse to cause harm to an innocent person than it is to let free a guilty one (the opposite of the feminist agenda, and ironically, the ideology u/tenchineuro is both opposed to and advocating for). Furthermore, consider the case where a rape victim's aggressor is found not guilty, but he did in fact commit the crime. The worst case scenario here would be a rape victim then going to jail because the prosecution failed to prove her case. That would be horrific.

Still, that isn't to minimize the harm caused to those falsely accused. The best way to address that, however, isn't to seek punishment against their accusers, but to prevent the harm in the first place. The less harm caused, the less need to seek justice against those who may cause it. That's why I quote the solicitor in my other comment.

The lawyer suggested that the lord chief justice, the attorney general and the Public Prosecution Service in Northern Ireland “enter into fresh discussions with us to look at more robust mechanisms strike an effective balance between everyone’s rights but that properly secures the integrity of our criminal justice system”.

While punishing false accusers would create a deterrent against false accusations, a higher priority should be protecting the rights of the accused. Men shouldn't have their names released to the media and the public regarding these charges. A fair compromise between transparency and privacy would be releasing the names of people arrested, but not listing their charges. Sexual abuse cases should be given a higher standard of privacy, so that the media isn't feeding off of information they can spin and speculate on. Men should be truly given the right of innocent until proven guilty. It should be illegal to fire or suspend someone simply due to an arrest. In colleges, university administrations should be removed completely from the process - any claims of sexual abuse should be reported directly the police, where a police investigation is both the beginning and end. Men shouldn't be removed from class because of an accusation, women accusers should be accommodated per their request. Men should be protected from harassment and defamation - the actions of the Columbia Mattress girl are criminal, and should be held that way.

There is plenty that can be done to remove the power of women to cause harm to men through false allegations. And removing their power is far superior to punishing them in retribution. No doubt, the victims of these false claims would rather have their lives back to normal than to see these women in jail. Ideally, we can achieve both. But right now we have neither, so let's prioritize our goals, yea?

So now that I've explained my actual position, I'll address your question. Because of poor grammar, a condescending attitude, poor reading comprehension and analysis, negative assumptions made against the apparent, hyperbole, and an intent to denigrate rather than engage. Particularly poor form when considering the atmosphere - that isn't how you bolster a social movement or group. That's how you turn others away from supporting you and your cause.

If you don't understand someone's position, ask them to clarify it. If you disagree with that position, explain why. Humility wins more minds and hearts than arrogance.

[–]tenchineuro 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I advocate for a high burden of proof, however, because the third case should not result in criminal charges,

We already have what we consider reasonable standards of evidence for most crimes, but they mostly don't apply to rape cases, hell, rape shield laws make the judge an advocate for the accuser. But tell me why the standard of evidence for a false rape accusation should be different from the standard of evidence for a rape accusation.

and I believe it is worse to cause harm to an innocent person than it is to let free a guilty one

There seems to be no issue hurting innocent men (by feminism, most women, and the judicial system), and to add insult to injury, men falsely accused are not even considered victims of a crime and they have no recourse under the law. It seems to me that this is a what needs to be fixed.

(the opposite of the feminist agenda, and ironically, the ideology u/tenchineuro is both opposed to and advocating for).

Tell me more.

Furthermore, consider the case where a rape victim's aggressor is found not guilty, but he did in fact commit the crime. The worst case scenario here would be a rape victim then going to jail because the prosecution failed to prove her case. That would be horrific.

Yes, it would be treating a woman the same way the legal system treats men. Can't have that.

While punishing false accusers would create a deterrent against false accusations, a higher priority should be protecting the rights of the accused.

Feminism wrote the book in DV and rape, and there is no concept in said book of men being innocent.

Hell, in light of the crown hiding exculpatory evidence of men accused of rape, a British PM mooted the idea of making the accused anonymous same as the accuser, to be made public only after a conviction, but that got quashed before it got anywhere.

Men should be protected from harassment and defamation - the actions of the Columbia Mattress girl are criminal, and should be held that way.

Apparently carrying that mattress got her course credits toward graduation.

--Her senior visual arts thesis project, “Mattress Performance (Carry That Weight),” earned her widespread attention and course credits toward her degree.

...

And removing their power is far superior to punishing them in retribution.

First, it ain't gonna happen, second, it would not undo the accusation or repay the man for the part of his life wasted defending himself or the costs of doing so, she deserves punishment and it needs to be criminal to match the jeopardy the man she falsely accused faced. I'm sure we disagree about this.

[–]tenchineuro 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

with false charges made simply for attention.

While this is undoubtedly true in some cases, there is also a problem with feminism and the media trying to create a rape crisis and latching onto anything that might create that reality. And somehow, even after things are proven false time and time again, the universities continue to act as if there is a real rape crisis and do everything in their power to punish the only real victims, the men falsely accused.

I really don't know what to say, it would be sickening if it was not so outright criminal.

[–]Shippoyasha 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The media still trying to scrounge up their failed fake reports with Rolling Stone is truly disgusting. They have absolutely zero shame.

[–]kartu3 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

We had a false rape accusation of taxi driver over "you make me angry".
We had prosecutor (another case) threatening taxi driver with shit over similar case.
We have seen false rape accusations made to get more time for studying.

[–]tenchineuro 21 points22 points23 points 8 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

A brutal rape trial in Ireland highlights the power athletes still wield in 'he said, she said' cases

How is it that any 'he said, she said' case ends up in court, ever?

And how is it that, if it's s brutal rape, all the prosecution has is 'he said, she said'?

[–]RacelessSexlessName 12 points13 points14 points 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Because the feminist article writer is ignoring all evidence entirely in order to make a claim that men are guilty and women are innocent. That's the only way you can believe in 'believe her' stories.

[–]tenchineuro 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The article actually never touched on the rape case in question, it basically alluded to supposed similar sexist injustices in other rape cases in the US.

[–]RacelessSexlessName 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Where they throw all evidence out the window in order to "believe in her"... If she's lying, how else do you keep up the facade of "2%" and "no one would lie about rape"?

[–]tenchineuro 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Where they throw all evidence out the window in order to "believe in her"... If she's lying, how else do you keep up the facade of "2%" and "no one would lie about rape"?

Yes, exactly, we should never ask 'why would she lie', we should ask, what is the evidence and proceed from there.

[–]SeanEire -5 points-4 points-3 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

You clearly know nothing about the story. There was chat logs in their groups revealing what they did. All written and taken from their phones. This isn't feminism, it's public opinion because they literally admitted to doing it via text.

[–]killcat 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Admitted what? Rape? Or having sex and then being cunt's about it afterward? Because on is a crime and one is being a cunt.

[–]backthefuckupbitch 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I would argue that crying rape and going to the police is a little worse than sending some private messages.

[–]killcat 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No argument here, still we should avoid cuntiness if possible.

[–]RacelessSexlessName 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Looks like /u/killcat beat me to it... but yeah, they didn't RAPE her, they admitted to having an orgy, to which she was a willing participant until she later regretted it. Regret is not rape, no matter how hard feminists try to redefine it and say you can change history by retracting consent after having consented and the act already being done.

[–]kartu3 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Did you conflate admitting having sex with admitting rape?

The messages were likely revealed to play on jury's feelings and urge them to punish "bad guys".

[–]SeanEire 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Admitting having sex? Please read the chat logs.

[–]kartu3 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I was left very confused, reading the transcript. For starters a number of messages is deleted and then, I don't understand the slang they are using.

If you could be so kind to cite the relevant part where they admit raping and explain, how that could get past jury.

[–]killcat 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Because in feminist ideology rape (sex without consent) also means sex where consent is removed post-script, the fact that the act is regretted is ipso facto evidence that it was non-consensual, regardless of the actions of the woman at the time.

[–]tenchineuro 12 points13 points14 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ultimately, rape culture relies on silence. And it thrives upon the narrative of the lying woman. When you throw celebrity and sports into the mix, women often don’t stand a chance.

...

Lisa Tierney-Keogh is an Irish playwright. She is a proud member of #WakingTheFeminists, a movement for gender parity in Irish theater. She is co-founder of Irish Stand, a grassroots movement supporting immigrants and vulnerable communities in the U.S.

Figures.

[–]iburiedmyshovel[S] 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Additional links:

https://www.her.ie/news/anatomy-night-read-messages-sent-jackson-olding-mciiroy-harrison-396189

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/28/irish-rugby-stars-paddy-jackson-and-stuart-olding-cleared-rape

McVeigh said: “It is our belief that the investigation has been characterised by the turning of a blind eye to inadequacies in the evidence of the complainant combined with the very apparent investigative bias.”

The solicitor also criticised the way the prosecution had “made much of a perceived privileged position provided by Paddy being an international rugby player”. “We say that it was this very status as a famous sportsman that drove the decision to prosecute in the first place,” he said. The lawyer revealed that several days of the trial were lost to comments being made on social media about the case.

McVeigh said: “All the lawyers have been distracted by having to man barriers against a flood of misinformed, misconceived and malicious content on the internet, particularly during the last phase of this trial and, worryingly, even at the hands of public servants who should have known better.”

The lawyer suggested that the lord chief justice, the attorney general and the Public Prosecution Service in Northern Ireland “enter into fresh discussions with us to look at more robust mechanisms strike an effective balance between everyone’s rights but that properly secures the integrity of our criminal justice system”.

[–]thrway_1000 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Archive (Her) -- https://archive.is/7Z8EM
Archive (The Guardian)-- https://archive.is/xDs38

[–]kartu3 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Transcript (the first link) doesn't show too clear a picture to me, to be honest.

[–]bastardstepchild 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Don’t overlook the responsibility of the simps like the ones who own NBC news who are enabling these feminists.

[–]thrway_1000 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The MSM is a joke.

Archive -- https://archive.is/xWb8u

[–]Deckardisdead 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Women lie as much as men and any time they are proven liars they still get to be the victim. Fuck the infantile feminist concept of strong victims. Pick one bitches!!!! Then sign up for the draft. And go build a house.

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The only way a man could be innocent in the court of feminist public opinion was if he could prove he was trans or Muslim.

[–]kartu3 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

ARCHIVE links to BS sites please!

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