Catherine II (Catherine the Great) is proof women weren't powerless as our modern society claims.

MRA-automatron-2kb · 2018-04-10T15:38:56+00:00

They have never been powerless. In India, women contributed equally in labour in farming communities and had special designated roles that were only held by them.

This notion of victimhood is new. Only to monopolize opportunities through sympathy.

ExpendableOne · 2018-04-10T16:53:43+00:00

The notion that women were powerless because they were not forced to do hard labour and/or fight for their existence is the most backwards fallacy to spew out of feminism. There has never been a slave-master dynamic in which the slaves get all the positives(safety, leniency, provision, wealth, etc) and the master get all the negatives(death, indifference, work, debt, etc).

McGauth925 · 2018-04-10T15:56:38+00:00

I don't think women have been as powerless as they would have us believe. But, a few queens and empresses don't change the fact that it's been most men who've ruled nations. And, it's mostly men who've created nations.

NathanRav · 2018-04-10T15:54:03+00:00

In the bible a whole nation was ruled by some chick named Deborah. Just a little glossed over Christian fact.

FirePhantom · 2018-04-11T01:10:08+00:00

Maria Theresa, Elizabeth I, Catharine de Medici. etc, etc.

Many of the greatest / most politically astute rulers in European history were women. Strong women who got shit done without whinging about the patriarchy holding them back incessantly.

svenskbitch · 2018-04-11T10:15:41+00:00

I think we are making the same mistake in logic as we do when we talk about the efficiency of female CEOs. Leaving aside the fact that measuring CEO effectiveness is complex, and that anyone who looks into the issue has strong incentives to come to the "right" conclusion, the issue is moot anyway. In a relatively free market, it stands to reason that the women who are appointed CEOs are exceptional leaders and have proven to be so already, just like their male counterparts. But that does not tell us anything about the women who are NOT CEOs and their abilities to lead.

Similarly, the fact that Catherine was a brutal rules with extraordinary achievements does not tell us anything about whether women in general were powerful or not. She is one person, and an exception as male succession was the default. Besides, even some of the most patriarchal countries on earth, such as Pakistan, have had female heads of state, while Sweden and the US have not (despite their best efforts in the former case at least). The ruler of a country is so far removed from the masses that gender does not appear to matter much.

2018-04-10T22:28:33+00:00

Apex Fallacy, it doesn't mean you're wrong but your argument is extremely flawed. The fact is history wasn't ruled by gender, it was ruled by classes of ruling elites and a Man or Woman on top of this hierarchy doesn't mean anything for either sex collectively.

HiredMind · 2018-04-10T16:51:57+00:00

Cleopatra, Pharoh of Egypt, roughly 50 B.C.

kartu3 · 2018-04-10T15:38:27+00:00

Well, why, is it somehow the only women that was in power? Egypt had seen seven Kleopatras.

DignifiedAlpaca · 2018-04-11T04:59:17+00:00

I personally think it is a matter of people taking the truth and blowing it out of proportion.

On the one hand, you do have a ton of legitimate examples of women being very powerless in history, for example, not having the right to vote, having at one time been considered the property of their husbands, husbands being legally allowed to beat them, etc.

But then on the other hand, you have examples like what you have given here, where there were women who ruled entire nations. And other people in this thread have pointed out that women historically had a lot of influence over the next generation through teaching, being the primary ones who raised the children, etc.

So I think that, like with most issues regarding gender, it was never a simple all or nothing issue. I do think it is fair to say that the average woman historically had less authority over other people in society than the average man, but there was also a ton of nuance to it that tends to be casually disregarded by many people.

Title	Catherine II (Catherine the Great) is proof women weren't powerless as our modern society claims.
Author	MRA-automatron-2kb
Upvotes	35
Comments	17
Date	April 10, 2018 3:03 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/8b8783/catherine_ii_catherine_the_great_is_proof_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/catherine-ii-catherine-the-great-is-proof-women.903035 https://theredarchive.com/post/903035

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