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Paul Elam: Why I don’t care what you think about my style

PeterWrightMGTOW

January 31, 2018
27 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/why-i-dont-care-what-you-think-about-my-style/
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Post Information
Title Paul Elam: Why I don’t care what you think about my style
Author

PeterWrightMGTOW

Upvotes 27
Comments 21
Date January 31, 2018 11:17 AM UTC
(8 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/7u97f7/paul_elam_why_i_dont_care_what_you_think_about_my/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/paul-elam-why-i-dont-care-what-you-think-about-my.906736
https://theredarchive.com/post/906736
Red Pill terms in post
feminism
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Comments

[–]Fortspucking 27 points28 points29 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Any time my ex-wife didn't want to hear the content of what I was trying to communicate, she attacked the way I was saying it, and, of course, there was no correct way to say it, because she didn't want anything I said to upset her. Women win lots of skirmishes that way, right up until they lose their partner.

[–]PlastIconoclastic 11 points12 points13 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I hear you with “no right way”. My ex-wife was reloading the dishwasher after I unloaded and loaded it because she knew the only way it would be right is if she did it. That was pretty close to the end.

[–]PlastIconoclastic 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

His writing, like his attempt to review the movie fight club run far too long. He is not concise and seems to ramble. I get bored with the repetition. He is not my cup of tea.

[–]OnTheSlope 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Lattes get so much hate these days

[–]Adanu0 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

His style isn't the problem.

It's how he censors anyone who dissents with him, and attacks them.

He can sugarcoat it all he wants, but he doesn't want debate, he wants a cult following.

[–]hottake_toothache 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Can you point me to an example? This is not my impression of him at all.

[–]Adanu0 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Just look at his reaction to anyone who disagrees with him. There are dozens of examples over the years on his website.

[+]tiqr -9 points-8 points-7 points 8 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

And I don't care what Paul Elam thinks about what I think about his style.

I think Paul Elam is toxic, and has harmed his cause far more than he has helped it. If you want a good model for someone who can promote controversial ideas, look to Jordan Peterson.

[–]v574v 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

What’s his take on shared parenting? Or alimony reform? Or child support? Or any men’s issue where men’s interests and women’s interests conflict?

Peterson is a classic liberal fighting modern liberals and that’s it.

He’s not an MRA.

[–]tiqr -5 points-4 points-3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

If you want a good model for someone who can promote controversial ideas, look to Jordan Peterson.

I never suggested he was an MRA. I suggested that he has a better model for talking about issues that run counter to popular opinion.

Paul Elam is indistinguishable from an /incel poster. If you want to know why so many people hate MRAs, it's because of people like that.

Sure Peterson gets a ton of pushback, but I have never seen a news cycle of articles in mainstream publications coming out saying "Gee, why all the hate for Paul Elam? He's actually quite reasonable".

[+]DiscombobulatedMan1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

fuck you

[–]tiqr -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

fuck you

Yeah, that is exactly what I am talking about. Like Elam, you are being a poor ambassador for your beliefs.

[–]Vandechoz 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think Paul Elam ... has harmed his cause far more than he has helped it.

I think you're delusional to think that. He put Men's Rights issues on the map, whatever else he may have done or said. I don't think he's quite so needed any more, but 9 years ago he was absolutely necessary. He got the boulder rolling, and he couldn't do anything to deter it now if he tried.

[–]hottake_toothache 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Elam vs JP is a nonsense comparison. JP is a tradcon whose concern is supporting men in fulfilling their traditional, disposable role. As such, JP has a large, natural audience.

Elam doesn't believe in men being confined to traditional roles, which also means his audience is very limited.

[–]tiqr 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If you want a good model for someone who can promote controversial ideas.

Like Peterson, I chose my words "very, very, very, carefully". I am not saying his ethos is what you should look to. I am saying his method of delivery is.

Elam's article is about "style". My comment was also about "style".

[–]hottake_toothache 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I take your point, but Elam is not JP. What is an appropriate style is dictated by circumstances.

JP has a salable message. Elam's message is not salable--not because it is wrong, but because his message is more incomprehensible to the public. So Elam is not talking to the public. He is talking to the small minority of people to need his message.

[–]UbuFor 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm not sure it's fair to compare the two. Peterson's message is that men need to "grow the hell up" and "take responsibility." It's basically just warmed over conservatism. Though he has rightly condemned the disgusting tendency to portray young men as rapists, he has never spoken out in favor of men's rights to my knowledge.

Elam's message is quite different: he says women need to grow the hell up and take responsibility. He challenges gynocentrism on both the left and the right. He argues that society's structures are stacked against men. He implies that it is futile and dishonorable to sacrifice oneself for an unjust society (hence his support for MGTOW).

There is nothing particularly radical about any of Peterson's ideas.

[–]tiqr 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

As I have had to say to 2 other people, my comment has nothing to do with their respective philosophies. I am talking about their style.

Elam has always engaged in inflammatory tactics to draw attention to his issues. He gets peoples' attention, but in the process he alienates a lot of potential supporters. The result? MRAs are pariahs because moderates who are sympathetic to the movement have long ago been turned off by the rhetoric.

Peterson is the opposite. He lets the ideas speak for themselves, instead of arguing that if you don't agree with him, then you are a bad person.

[–]UbuFor 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

my comment has nothing to do with their respective philosophies.

But isn't that the crux of the issue? Peterson's opinions are consistent with about half of the population. Elam's opinions are sacrilegious to both the right and the left. MRA's tried the kind, gentle approach for 20 years. It took the obnoxious Elam to even get us on the radar.

Look, I don't even particularly like Elam, and I agree that theoretically it should be sufficient to clearly lay out our arguments in a straightforward and non-inflammatory way. Perhaps now, after The Red Pill and other developments, it is. But the history may well have called for a figure like Elam to generate enough controversy to break through the media barrier.

[–]Taxus_Calyx 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't care if you don't care that I don't care if you care.... and so on.

[–]nforne 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If you like the combative approach to men's rights, Elam is a warrior hero.

But the success of men's rights depends on how people perceive us, and Elam has only harmed our image in the outside world. Sure, we might understand that he's using satire, but what good is that if the rest of the world doesn't get it?

Despite not being an MRA, Peterson did more for us in one interview than Elam ever has. People are thinking about the issues, rather than thinking about Elam.

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