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The rise of transgender reversals: Most transgender operations are male to female.

DougDante

October 3, 2017

51 upvotes

/r/MensRights

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Title	The rise of transgender reversals: Most transgender operations are male to female.
Author	DougDante
Upvotes	51
Comments	62
Date	October 3, 2017 11:30 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/744b39/the_rise_of_transgender_reversals_most/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/the-rise-of-transgender-reversals-most-transgender.913479 https://theredarchive.com/post/913479

Comments

[–]TheAngryBird03 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]ExpendableOne 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]IllCaesar 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]cbagainststupidity 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]boringcarpets 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]NiceIce1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (69 children) | Copy Link

It would be nice if more people understood the difference between the words 'sex and 'gender. sigh

[–]DougDante[S] 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]SaiHottari 15 points16 points17 points 8 years ago* (38 children) | Copy Link

You mean the difference between "what you are" and "what you pretend you are"?

Or do you mean the difference between "what you are" and "how you act"?

Because if it's the former, the distinction is irrelevant because I don't care what you pretend you are. If you mean the later, I hope you don't use "male" and "female" to identify your gender. You're masculine or feminine, not man or woman. Man and woman are terms for sex. Stop confusing the shit out of everyone by using man and woman in two different aspects of yourself.

Edit: Oh, and one more thing. Don't you dare use the law to bludgeon me into calling you what you want to be called. A rock isn't a rock because it says so. Neither is a duck, a duck. These things are called rocks and ducks because I have identified them as such based on their characteristics.

Example in humans:

Penis and XY chromosome? Male

Vagina, breasts and XX Chromosomes? Female.

Walks with a prance, talks in a high pitch, and wears dresses? Feminine.

Walks with a swagger, grows a beard, and likes power tools? Masculine.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]NiceIce1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (36 children) | Copy Link

You almost have it right.

Biological sex is male and female. Man and Woman.

Gender roles very actually quite widely depending upon culture. Gender is fluid depending on many different things, sex is not - short of a sex change.

[–]CountVonVague 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[+]NiceIce1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (20 children) | Copy Link

Gender REFERS to gender roles. What that heck else did you think in meant?

And yes, having a sex change most definitely changes your sex!

You seem to still be confusing sex with gender.

[–]CountVonVague 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[+]NiceIce1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (18 children) | Copy Link

Sex= male/female.

You seem to be having a hard time with the entire concept of gender.

Gender refers to the roles assigned to each of the sexes, depending on what culture you are talking about.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[+]NiceIce1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (9 children) | Copy Link

I'm an academic... Ok, I worked hard to reach this lofty goal!

It is a bit too simplistic to think the man in your example only cares about physical appearance. Unless you are talking about a drag queen or a transvestite.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mode1961 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]SaiHottari 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]CountVonVague 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+]NiceIce1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Wow, such a cleverly reasoned, deeply nuanced argument!

[–]CountVonVague 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ExpendableOne 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (13 children) | Copy Link

[+]NiceIce1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (12 children) | Copy Link

Sex and gender are most definitely NOT interchangeable. You certainly CAN change your sex. Have you never heard of a sex change operation?

A woman who is a tomboy or a man who acts girly only show the fluidity of gender, depending on culture, race, etc.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[+]NiceIce1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

Their 'parts is the difference between the sexes. The part you just quoted is a component of their gender role.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[+]NiceIce1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

Someone who defies social gender roles is not an independent gender. He/she/it/them/zir/zim is just a noncomformist.

It upsets you when people do not conform to their supposed gender role?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ExpendableOne 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

A sex change operation doesn't actually change anyone's sex, it just mutilates one person's sexual organs to resemble another's. No amount of surgery could turn a dog into a cat, but you certainly could make something that resembles a cat from a dog or vice versa if you tried hard enough.

A woman who is a "tomboy" is still a woman, who is acting like a woman because she is a woman and therefore anything she does are the actions of a woman. The term "tomboy" simply stems from the social expectations placed on her over how a woman should act or look.

A man who is a "girl" is still a man, who is acting like a man because she is a man and therefore anything he does are the actions of a man. The term "girl" simply stems from the social expectations placed on him over how a man should act or look.

A woman who is a "tomboy" or a man who acts "girly" only shows a woman and a man behaving outside preconceive notions of how each gender should act. It is incredibly sexist to strongly attribute these behaviours to gender, rather than the set of rules socially attached to each gender. That is exactly what you are doing. Your entire conceptualization of "gender" is entirely based on gender roles. You are attributing gender roles to the physical body. It is literally every form of sexism "early feminism" tried to destroy for women.

[+]NiceIce1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

Whoa. A sex change operation most definitely changes a person's sex. It can turn a man into a woman and vice versa. It is not sexist in the slightest o attribute societal thoughts and actions to a person's gender- that's the very definition.

You are attributing gender roles to the physical body

If by physical body you mean a person's sex, then of course. Again, the very definition.

[–]ExpendableOne 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

A sex change operation most definitely changes a person's sex.

That is delusional. It is a fallacy. You cannot change someone's gender, short of transplanting them into another body or rebuilding their entire body down to very strain of DNA. "Sex change" does not change your sex, it just makes you look like the other sex.

Melanin skin treatments wouldn't make you "black", just because you imitated that skin pigment, nor should you artificially alter the melanin content of your skin just because you're a white guy that's really into hiphop and fried chicken(which would be offensive and racist in any context but it is exactly the type of mentality that drives gender identity disorders). A black person who wants to be "white" because he likes "white" things would be also be considered to be delusional and racist.

People with gender identity disorders are legitimizing hard gender roles(which are socially defined) but strictly associating them gender(which is the body/sex). This is wrong. This is inherently sexist.

[+]NiceIce1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

So now you are calling transsexual people delusional? That's incredibly unfair and sexist. Those people felt like they were born the wrong sex, got the surgery to fix things, and yet you still don't accept them? That's rather sad.

[–]ExpendableOne 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Those people felt like they were born the wrong sex

No one with a gender identity disorder is "born" thinking they were of the wrong sex. This is something that people with gender identity disorders develop. Typically in their early childhood development(when they are most vulnerable). They feel they are of the wrong "sex" because they physically internalize gender roles, based on incredibly sexist misconceptions about genders. Not only is this view of gender entirely unhealthy(inability to differentiate between gender roles and gender) but so is that internalization as well(altering the real body to match an unreliable mind, rather than adjusting the ethereal mind to match the tangible body).

got the surgery to fix things

And yet, they fixed nothing. A man who has a sex change operation has not actually changed his sex. He is still a man. He may now superficially resemble a woman but he is still very much a man. It's a placebo. The fact that this superficial change could, in any way, convince any person with a gender identity disorder that they are now fully of the opposite gender just goes to demonstrate just how superficial their psychological condition actually is and just how rooted in superficial appearance their view of gender(sex) actually is.

The fact that anyone with a gender identity disorder could even accept their "transition" as complete through physical butchery is absurd and completely discredits any argument they might have about "feeling like they were born in the wrong body".

The belief that you are born of the wrong body is also not just validated simply because it is there, just like any other case of penis or vagina envy wouldn't simply be validated just because certain people feel that way. Perception and feelings are both fallible. People with mental disorders shouldn't have their every delusion and mental disorder validated because they have them or it wouldn't "mean" to tell them otherwise(or to try to help them recover in any way).

[–]Blutarg 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]boringcarpets 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ExpendableOne 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]NiceIce1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Wow, you seriously don't know the difference? Is English not your native language? Keep studying.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PillTheRed -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[+]NiceIce1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (17 children) | Copy Link

You'll need to clarify:

Do you think most people are unable to make a distinction between sex and gender?

Do you think the words mean the very same thing?

Clarifying terms is never bullshit.

[–]Greg_W_Allan 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[+]NiceIce1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

Ah, when you have no argument, simply call your conversant mentally ill. Brilliant...?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+]NiceIce1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Wow, you really do not have an argument.. I suggest you come up with some before conversing with the fine folks of reddit.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PillTheRed 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[+]NiceIce1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

No thanks WHAT?

You've never answered or said much of anything Studying gender roles is a fairly useless occupation.

[–]PillTheRed -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[+]NiceIce1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

Didn't intent to say anything? Then why post?

[–]PillTheRed 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[+]NiceIce1 points 8 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

Ok, fair enough... but your reason for doing so?

[–]PillTheRed 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Blutarg 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]electron_beam 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]DougDante[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link