Paedophile mother, 44, who posed as a 15-year-old girl on Facebook to lure teenagers but was caught by boy's mother having sex in his bedroom is jailed for three years. This is a very lenient sentence. Adam Johnson got 6 years for a much lesser crime.

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[–]DarthCerebroX 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

Cherry picking?

Okay then... let's just look at the overall statistics regarding gender and the criminal justice system.

On average...

Men are given 60% longer prison sentences than women for the same crimes
Women are almost 50% less likely to be convicted of a crime
Women are also far less likely to see any jail/prison time after they are convicted because they are often given generous plea deals or suspended sentences.

When you have statistics like those... it's not considered cherry picking... this is just another example highlighting the fact that we have a 2-tiered justice system, one for men and one for women... Where men are being systemically discriminated against and women are given special treatment. This example that is posted in this thread... this isn't an exception or outlier... this is the standard pattern that you see over and over again..

Now your example though... that is cherry picking.... That isn't the standard, it's an exception.

Here's a couple articles talking about the gender sentencing gap... each one from opposite biases/positions..

Hopefully these statistics and articles can open up some reasonable discourse... if that's what you're really after.

Keep in mind... the study that these articles are referring to, it isn't the only study regarding this issue. There have been multiple studies done over the years using data straight from the justice department and other government agencies... and every single time they come to the same conclusions .... that there is a huge bias in our justice system and women aren't being held accountable for their actions to the same standard as men.

Here is a good article about the sentencing gap between men and women

https://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/sentencing-gap-men-likely-go-prison-mrzs/

Now, I'm sure one could argue that this is a biased source, but the article links directly to the studies themselves (which are credible sources and most of the studies done on this subject use the actual data from our justice department). EDIT: they don't link to the studies, just cite them. I'm trying to find them right now tho)

According to a recent study by Sonja Starr, an assistant law professor at the University of Michigan, men on average receive 63 percent longer prison sentences than women who commit comparable crimes.

Here's the huffpro article talking about the same study... which obviously, huffpro is about as anti-male as you can get... so if they are reporting on it as well, then it's not some made up stats.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/1874742

If you’re a convicted criminal, the best thing you can have going for you might be your gender.

A new study by Sonja Starr, an assistant law professor at the University of Michigan, found that men are given much higher sentences than women convicted of the same crimes in federal court.

The study found that men receive sentences that are 63 percent higher, on average, than their female counterparts.

Starr also found that females arrested for a crime are also significantly more likely to avoid charges and convictions entirely, and twice as likely to avoid incarceration if convicted.

Other research has found evidence of the same gender gap, though Starr asserts that the disparity is actually larger than previously suspected because other studies haven’t looked at the role of plea bargains and other pre-sentencing steps in the criminal justice system.

So even huffpro is reporting that women are twice as likely to avoid prison time even after convicted, and that women are almost twice as likely to avoid being convicted in the first place.

Give me a little bit and I'll see if I can find the links to the actual studies themselves... but it's hard because the search results are usually buried under dozens and dozens of opinion articles.

I do have the links on my home computer so if I can find them right now, I can always share them later when I get home.

But honestly, those two links alone (with completely opposite biases) reporting the same information should show you that those numbers are correct and I'm not just pulling them out of my ass.

EDIT: I encourage you to read the full goodmenproject article as it is very insightful.

‘A lot of times these issues will get drowned out because of highly public fighting between Men’s Rights Activists and feminists, which winds up overshadowing the legitimate concerns that many MRAs have,’ explained Adam Hollingsworth… ‘The sentencing gap should be a large issue not only for Men’s Rights Activists, but for feminists. It is a clear example of how our justice system treats women as if they have less agency and are thus less accountable for their actions.’

EDIT 2: If you're interested in learning more about some of the systemic discrimination men face in our legal system, divorce/family courts, and other areas of life... feel free to PM me or check out the men's rights sub's sidebar information.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Men are given 60% longer prison sentences than women for the same crimes

This statistic is accurate when taken from the scope of the whole country, but there isn't one overall court with one judge presiding over all criminal cases in the United States. Can you provide evidence that this occurs within the same court, or with the same judge? Does Judge What's-His-Name from Wherever, Idaho, give men longer sentences than women? If not, then there may be a flaw in how the statistics are being interpreted.

The other statistic provided also leaves the same question: is it still accurate beyond the macro-level? When you close in on the various and disparate regions of the United States, can you still make the same claim, or must it only be at the "average" and nation-wide level?

Now you're example though... that is cherry picking.... That isn't the standard, it's an exception.

Oh, I wouldn't tread that water, because it gets deep. I wouldn't have to work hard to start spitting out article links or references to court cases where men received downright unsettlingly brief prison sentences for sexual assault. And then you have the famous people who get a slap on the wrist for things that people who aren't famous would see ten years hard time for. And then you have the politicians and CEOs who can virtually walk away from anything. It's a tangled web of unfairness and no one gender has a clear advantage.

Also, that was the wrong you're/your.

Here's the huffpro article

HuffPo. Short for Huffington Post. I wouldn't really assign the term "pro" to them, unless you wanna go with Huffington Professional Victim (see, I'm not entirely unreasonable!).

But honestly, those two links alone (with completely opposite biases) reporting the same information should show you that those numbers are correct and I'm not just pulling them out of my ass.

Just to make sure I'm being totally clear here; I am not disagreeing with the numbers, just how they're being interpreted and used to make arguments. Is it not possible that women statistically less frequently commit a crime (or at least get caught committing one) in areas of the United States where judges hand down harsher sentences? It wouldn't point to a systemic cause, but purely a matter of statistical interest?

[–]DarthCerebroX 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

1/3

Just to make sure I'm being totally clear here; I am not disagreeing with the numbers, just how they're being interpreted and used to make arguments.

You're right, there isn't one judge that resides over the entire country... there are tons of local, state and federal judges and I'm sure they all have their own biases in how they give out sentences. I disagree with your perspective though.

The fact that there is such a huge number of judges contributing to the data gives more credibility to the idea that there is systemic bias happening in our criminal justice system. The larger sample size always adds credibility to studies/experiments. If it was only a minority of judges that give women preferential treatment, then the numbers wouldn't be so skewed in women's favor... and the disparity in arrest rates, conviction rates and sentencing would only be minuscule. These statistics show that a majority of judges, police officers (arrest rates) and Prosecutors are consistently showing favorable bias towards women. The multiple different researchers that have conducted studies on this issue feel the same way apparently.

These differences in conviction rates and sentencing between the genders also isn't limited to only the USA. I don't have them on me right now (I'm On my phone) but you can look up the stats for other Western countries such as the U.K. , Canada and Australia. They all have similar stats showing differences in the way men and women are treated in their Justice systems.

There's many different factors contributing to why women are given special treatment in our justice system ... such as our own instinctual gender group bias.

I'm going paste some information below regarding gender in group/out group bias..

One main reason (IMO) for the 'Empathy Gap' is gender "in group" biases. For those who don't know about humans natural gender biases I'll link some information below.

Women have a strong "in group" bias where they favor/protect/side with other women..

Now, you'd think that men would also have an in group bias favoring other men but that's not the case.. Men actually have an "out group" bias where they also favor/protect women over other men..

Now, before I get accused of talking out of my ass or being "misogynistic" .. let me provide you with the evidence. These biases have been proven with multiple scientific studies.

Here is a good abstract to the following study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15491274/

Four experiments confirmed that women's automatic in-group bias is remarkably stronger than men's and investigated explanations for this sex difference, derived from potential sources of implicit attitudes (L. A. Rudman, 2004). In Experiment 1, only women (not men) showed cognitive balance among in-group bias, identity, and self-esteem (A. G. Greenwald et al., 2002), revealing that men lack a mechanism that bolsters automatic own group preference. Experiments 2 and 3 found pro-female bias to the extent that participants automatically favored their mothers over their fathers or associated male gender with violence, suggesting that maternal bonding and male intimidation influence gender attitudes. Experiment 4 showed that for sexually experienced men, the more positive their attitude was toward sex, the more they implicitly favored women. In concert, the findings help to explain sex differences in automatic in-group bias and underscore the uniqueness of gender for intergroup relations theorists.

And here is the full paper

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/2c44/14cde6b6a011e9f4910e6389d658278e3a7a.pdf

Here's a Wikipedia page about the "women are wonderful affect". In the "in group bias" section the page actually quotes one of those studies that was included in the paper I sent you.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22Women_are_wonderful%22_effect

From that article..

This research found that while both women and men have more favorable views of women, women's in-group biases were 4.5 times stronger[5] than those of men and only women (not men) showed cognitive balance among in-group bias, identity, and self-esteem, revealing that men lack a mechanism that bolsters automatic own group preference.[5]

[–]WikiTextBot 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

1/3

Oh, for the love of Pete.

The fact that there is such a huge number of judges contributing to the data gives more credibility to the idea that there is systemic bias happening in our criminal justice system.

That would be true only if the judges collaborated on a system of sentencing, which they don't. You're also running on the assumption that "average" means "normal". Average is nothing more than a mathematical computation.

Remember that "same crime" doesn't always factor in the severity of the crime, either. Serial killers (the vast majority of whom are male) get insanely long sentences, which tips the scales in a totally understandable way. The only way to rebalance that isn't by being more lenient with serial killers or by just arbitrarily imprisoning female murderers for a thousand years apiece; it's by eliminating serial murder from society.

And I'm guessing you don't have any solutions to that problem.

Anyway, I have better things to do than argue ideologies online tonight. Maybe once I'm thoroughly stoned I'll be in the mood. Turrah!

[–]DarthCerebroX 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

2/3

In the U.K. you don't even have to look at the statistics to see the special treatment women are given..

Judges told: 'be more lenient to women criminals'

Judges have been told to deal less severely with female criminals than men when determining how to sentence them.

Female criminals are more likely to have mental health or educational difficulties and to have parenting responsibilities, while a lower proportion will have committed violent crimes than men, according to new guidelines.

Judges ought to "bear these matters in mind" when passing sentence, according to the Equal Treatment Bench Book, published by the Judicial Studies Board (JSB).

The body, which is responsible for training judges, said female victims, witnesses and criminals have a very different experience in court than male counterparts.

This is the government body responsible to training judges and writing out guidelines...

They say because of mental health issues, lack of education and parental responsibilities ... that women should be given leniency and these factors should be included in sentencing..

Hmm.... if I recall correctly, men deal with these same exact issues. Why aren't judges ordered to give consideration to men as well?

Men suffer from mental illnesses just like women. As schizophrenia is arguably one of the worst mental illnesses, men are also 2-3x more likely to fall ill to it. Research tends to concur that men are anywhere from 2-15x more likely to have autism. Men also are also twice as likely to develop alcohol addiction, which is a debilitating and destructive disease that has ramifications for everyone, including women and children. Men are also over 4 times more likely to die by suicide than women (it's believed that mental illness is the main cause of suicide).

What about education? I'm not going to link any studies/articles because there are countless of them available.... but men are the ones that are having an educational crisis right now. From grade school to college, boys are falling behind girls... in failure rates, drop out rates, and less men are attending college.

I could keep going but I'm assuming you get my point right?

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