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"Accidental MRAs"? Men give the finger to chivalry / crybully gynocentrism: "Men have already taken over Shenzhen's 'women-only' subway carriages".

andejoh

September 22, 2017
71 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://archive.is/m3nhK
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Title "Accidental MRAs"? Men give the finger to chivalry / crybully gynocentrism: "Men have already taken over Shenzhen's 'women-only' subway carriages".
Author

andejoh

Upvotes 71
Comments 30
Date September 22, 2017 1:58 PM UTC
(8 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/71r5a8/accidental_mras_men_give_the_finger_to_chivalry/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/accidental-mras-men-give-the-finger-to-chivalry.913995
https://theredarchive.com/post/913995
Red Pill terms in post
chivalrygynocentrismMRA
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Comments

[–]Lethn 27 points28 points29 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

And of course they all try to immediately paint the guys and say this is 'just' how men act, all I can say is well done to the men who had the balls to stand up to these sexists. It also shows you how full of shit feminists are because the police sure as shit aren't going to pick a fight over something as daft as this even if they're legally obligated to do so it might just not be realistic.

See the thing is, having grown up in a rough town I have noticed that even police officers know when certain laws are stupid and they just don't enforce them. There's a shopping area for example which I have to drive through which is filled with double yellow lines but everybody parks there regardless because they're just going to get takeaways and so on.

Do the police arrest them? No, but why? It's because if they did they know it would take huge amounts of resources and manpower just to clear the streets, people would be pissed off because realistically they have nowhere else to park and business owners would get pissed off because they'd be losing tons of honest business from people in the neighbourhood. The police officers have more important things to worry about like genuine terrorists and drug dealers who are actually out to hurt people.

Even though people give the police a lot of shit and even as an Anarchist myself, I think deep down a lot of police officers do understand where the limits are at when it comes to personal freedom and civil rights.

[–]Rethgil 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I hope you're right but I worry they'll have a crackdown at some point. Fingers crossed they won't though.

[–]HeForeverBleeds 14 points15 points16 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It kind of reminds me of Rosa Parks refusing to move from a seat because a White person asked her to. Interesting how if this were racial segregation and Black people sitting in a Whites only carriage, they'd probably be praised as civil heroes. Here, this article treats the men like they're being problematic

[–]Potatoe_Master 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The thing is most people during Rosa Parks' time believed that the white person had every right to do that, and that might be what's happening today.

[–]Mythandros 22 points23 points24 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"Women only" Anything is a complete farce. If you want to separate yourself from the rest of society, don't expect to get special treatment.

If I was here, I would use the "women only" trains as a regular train car. I would do exactly as these men, ignore the obvious sexism and use it anyways.

[–]IronJohnMRA 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good! Nice job guys.

[–]ThePigmanAgain 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Apparently, China is full of little men with big balls. In the West, of course, all us niggers will quietly go to the back of the bus.

[–]Blutarg 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Outstanding!

[–]DavidByron2 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good for them.

[–]yungtsan 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm a Chinese living in Shenzhen. There's no women-only carriages but lady-first ones. Ladies got priority, but not exclusive.

[–]mrmensplights 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Ah we've been had. Thanks for clearing that up. It seems a 'lady-first' is pretty hard to enforce in any way and this is just a political feel-good kind of initiative?

[–]yungtsan 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Basically you are right. The official name in English is "Priority Carriages for Women". It's much more crowded here than in the US, so it's not realistic to have it by force.

[–]Rethgil 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm shocked to hear this actually happened somewhere already; I thought these carriages were just another crazy feminist pipe dream. Sad to hear they actually succeeded in making them a reality

Worries me that theyre more likely to happen here too.

[–]Mashiki 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I thought these carriages were just another crazy feminist pipe dream.

They used to be common as anything prior to women's lib. movement in the 70's and in quite a few countries even here in the west. It's more of a case of regressing then progressing anything at all.

[–]Kuramo 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

My respect for men of Shenzhen.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wanna know why you can't make me move? Cuz I'm stronger than you....

[+]dewse -6 points-5 points-4 points 8 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

Or they just don't care about rules. Not going to cheer people for being dicks rather than having a real purpose in action. I know we like to project our ideology to other countries, but some countries truly have issues that mostly originate from the dudes creeping/molesting women (i.e. the trains in Japan or India) I mean, you could always argue that women are as likely to creep in Japan, but I have a feeling the scientific data would strongly disagree. That being said, I have no idea what the why they made a separation in this particular country.

[–]andejoh[S] 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Or they just don't care about rules.

I have no problem with people not caring about rules that discriminate against them.

[–]dewse -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Neither do I. I'm just pointing out that the intention is not necessarily valiant, so there's nothing to cheer on. I'm pretty convinced they weren't being defiant towards the gender issue, but just not caring about being told what to do. I'll see if there is some followup to the story. I'm in the dark as much as anyone else in this thread.

[–]andejoh[S] 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm just pointing out that the intention is not necessarily valiant, so there's nothing to cheer on.

I don't know that it has to be. In fact, it might be better if it weren't. There are many reasons why people might ignore a law. The men here probably were motivated by a mix so I'm not trying to sign a motive, but if we're going to talk in generalities their motives are most likely defiance toward gender discrimination. Not the in your face this is oppression stuff you get from cry bullies, but the this is stupid and unnecessary so I'm not going to follow it defiance. Fighting it because they think it's stupid and unnecessary is probably a whole lot more useful men's activism than screaming about being oppressed, but it's still men's activism.

[–]dewse -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't know. This is China. I'd have to read into it, but knowing the bit of what I've seen in regards to social justice there, it looks fairly non-existant. Maybe the Chinese folks I've talked to had unique experience, but I doubt this is some form of gender political decision rather than "hey, this cart is available, let me get in."

[–]nforne 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Having read the article in full, and the comments, you are correct.

The carriages are not even 'women only'. They're supposed to be women 'priority', whatever that means. How could that even be enforced?

The commuters are just ignoring the lame signs the same way they ignore other minor transport rules like what side of the stairs to walk on.

There seems to be a lot of wishful thinking, but sadly this is not an uprising.

[–]Lethn 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Scientific data is never a justification for discrimination.

[–]dewse -3 points-2 points-1 points 8 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Actually, it is. At some point if the scientific data is too strong, you can make compensations. It works both side; if you're at a disadvantage or advantage. Are you just claiming that you feel like there is no justification for discrimination, ever, even if something were to occur at a 99.99% rate? I'd imagine that it's not an absolute thing, but rather a gradient. Where do you yourself draw the line?

[Edit: And I'm aware this argument could be used to parallel what the nazis did, to say that since (phony) science says something, that we are entitled to do whatever we want from that result. I'm saying if there is supporting data that shows a problem can be quickly fixed short-term without hurting anyone. Great, while we figure out the best means to handle something long-term, like more education in regards to the issue. I just find it rather annoying when our own sub acts like the feminist we laugh at for complaining about the dumbest, non-issues, like manspreading or whatever else.]

[–]Lethn 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If you think that scientific data justifies treating somebody different under the law, then you do not want an equal society, it's that simple. Many of the problems we face now are because of blatant biases within the courts and by law enforcement and if the law had simply been enforced as it should things wouldn't have gotten as bad as they are now.

For instance, the whole situation with Islamic migration being such a problem with society is that politicians and police refused to enforce the law because they were scared of being called racists. This helped bring about the rise of more genuinely extremist viewpoints, the same even in America, affirmative action being a classic example, like it or not, white men were and still are discriminated against and that has given justification to white nationalist groups to do what they do.

What you are proposing is just more of the same racial collectivist or identity politics bullshit by claiming scientific data justifies it, it doesn't.

[–]dewse 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree, but my question was if there were a 99.99%. In real life, these stats don't exist, but to me if even at a 99.99% chance you still point to the 0.01% as representative of the default whole, then it's worrying for the judgement of the whole system. Not saying you wouldn't be open to seeing every single value of the whole for an exception though.

Again, I say this as someone who understands genetics and HATES true racism, sexism, and most phobic ism out there. I just don't agree with some of the points made, that I would equally criticize the feminist for (if I wasn't banned). I just think complaining about this petty shit dilutes the movement's efficiency, much like it does the feminists.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

They can have their own train cars as soon as they pay for them.

[–]dewse 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

A problem with that statement is that China is socialistic. If you had said that in the states, it would have more meaning within that context.

[–]mrmensplights 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Or they just don't care about rules. Not going to cheer people for being dicks ra

I will. Ignoring terrible laws and not just following rules blindly is one of the best attributes human beings have. Bucking dumb rules is a universal value. You don't come out the other end of Mao without respecting this as a culture. It doesn't need to be a rosa parks moment to be celebrated.

I know we like to project our ideology to other countries .... but some countries truly have issues that mostly originate from the dudes creeping/molesting women (i.e. the trains in Japan or India)

You and I have no shared ideology. Regardless if a problem exists or not, the solution can be criticized. Shenzhen is not India or Japan. If you have a problem with projecting our values we can let them speak for themselves:

“This carriage reflects sexual discrimination, the same as parking spaces for women. Privileges for women shows inequality, not respect for women,” said Mr. Xia, who was also riding in the female-priority car.

Ms. Zhou riding in the newly stickered cars threw in her two cents: “As a woman, I don’t think we really need this kind of ‘respect’ or ‘protection’ when men are doing it unwillingly or take it as a burden… Equality should be an idea that people follow and acknowledge willingly in their minds, instead of these unnecessary priority designations.”

The official who proposed the female-priority cars in the first place, Su Zhongyang, explained that the public should not focus on the prevention of sexual harassment or sexual discrimination as primary goals. Instead, the idea is intended to advocate politeness and respect for women in society.

See the difference between speaking in platitudes and abstractions about cultural relativism instead of just reading about the actual situation? The west and China have plenty of shared values, they aren't some undiscovered people. Chinese culture has been influencing all of us for a long time and vice versa.

Source: http://www.thatsmags.com/shenzhen/post/19576/priority-carriages-for-women-in-shenzhen-subway

you could always argue that women are as likely to creep in Japan, but I have a feeling the scientific data would strongly disagree.

Facts don't care about your feelings. Go out and find the data if you want to make it part of your argument.

[–]dewse 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"I'm in the dark as much as anyone else in this thread."

This goes to the stated parent comments, which I highly doubt were fed by the understanding of the context of culture. I never claimed understanding, but at least I'm honest about my lack of understanding, unlike the other comments that claimed to understand the intention.

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