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"Man Up": circumcision campaign in Africa

throwaway32189

June 21, 2017
72 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://ehealthnews.co.za/celebs-male-circumcision-campaign/
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Post Information
Title "Man Up": circumcision campaign in Africa
Author

throwaway32189

Upvotes 72
Comments 56
Date June 21, 2017 5:27 PM UTC
(9 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/6inc41/man_up_circumcision_campaign_in_africa/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/man-up-circumcision-campaign-in-africa.919869
https://theredarchive.com/post/919869
Top posts by throwaway32189

11 dead from botched circumcisions in South Africa

64 upvotes
July 8, 2017
/r/MensRights

[Circumcision] Burden of proof

41 upvotes
January 5, 2018
/r/MensRights

Botched circumcision: ‘I don’t want to lose my penis'

29 upvotes
June 12, 2017
/r/MensRights

Comments

[–][deleted] 51 points52 points53 points 9 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

man up and get part of your cock cut off.

Fuck you, no.

Most African men agree and don't fucking want someone to cut off part of their genitals.

It's racist, horrible, and done to attempt to preserve the US/Israel's culture of cutting children's genitals.

[–]Cloudy_Wealth 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Why is this part of their culture? I know the Bible says something about it, but I never understood it.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points14 points 9 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Dr Kellogg and the Victorian era popularized genital cutting to limit "sexual thoughts and actions"

[–]Cloudy_Wealth 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

But that is old age thinking and it doesn't work? Am I processing this correctly?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Yeah but it stuck and even now the us cuts boys penis3s at over a million a day

[–]somestranger26 8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

More like a million per year. There aren't even close to that many babies born every day in the US.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I meant year

[–]Cloudy_Wealth 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Ehhh the million statistic is a bit hard to believe, but what disadvantages does it cause to young boys and men.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well circumcision cuts off the most sensitive part of their penis for no reason. It also is done to infants who did not consent and regularly is botched.

You need no medical license to do it.

[–]93re2 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmToXLVrZ7c

[–]video_descriptionbot 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

SECTION CONTENT
Title Anatomy of the Penis: Penile and Foreskin Neurology
Description Ken McGrath, Senior Lecturer in Pathology at the Faculty of Health, Auckland University of Technology and Member of the New Zealand Institute of Medical Laboratory Scientists discusses his research into the neural anatomy of the human penis and the physical damages caused by circumcision. McGrath is author of The Frenular Delta: A New Preputial Structure published in Understanding Circumcision: A Multi-Disciplinary Approach to a Multi-Dimensional Problem, Proceedings of the Sixth International ...
Length 0:15:51

I am a bot, this is an auto-generated reply | Info | Feedback | Reply STOP to opt out permanently

[–]Neapher 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

We would run out of people to mutilate before the end of the year, even if we include women.

[–]ThirdTurnip 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It isn't a part of their culture though.

We've seen this story come up before and the campaign is being funded by a dodgy western group called Palladium.

Lovely bit of irony on the CMT website (mentioned in this article) too.

Community Media Trust (CMT) is a not-for-profit company that specialises in communication in the fields of health, human rights and gender based violence.

Come let us slice a piece of your dick off - tell me that ain't gender based violence.

[–]Notyobabydaddy -5 points-4 points-3 points 9 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

It's a campaign for VOLUNTARY circumcision. If a grown-ass man wants to get his foreskin chopped off, then so be it. There also appears to be some truth to the HIV claim as found on these sources:

webMD/CDC

LiveScience

Canadian government sponsored site

Edit: although i do disagree with the "Man up" phrase in the way they're using it. It makes you neither more or less of a man if you decide to get a circumcision or not.

[–]Deipnoseophist 14 points15 points16 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The issue here is that they are filling the heads of there people with absolutely false facts. So the grown ass man can choose for himself, sure, but he's making his choice based on wrong information. Thinking this is better for him when really it's not. At all. The target audience here is also the poorer community who may not be able to do their own objective research like you and I. It becomes a cultural thing and peer pressure takes over to get it done and people do it because others are doing when all of this needless surgery and all its possible complications and all its long term negative effects all stem from a bullshit campaign based on a bullshit study.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

the HIV claims are all but useless btw. As every one of those sources says, you STILL need to wear a condom (meaning you basically lose a body part for no reason at all)

[–]Ultramegasaurus 31 points32 points33 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Man up by having part of your manhood removed

Really makes you think

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points21 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Holy fuck. I feel sick reading this.

[–]93re2 13 points14 points15 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I wonder if the boys kidnapped and forcibly mutilated by members of this whole "CIRCUMCISE AFRICA" movement were told to "man up" too?

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/33i9xu/kenya_30_boys_circumcised_without_their_or_their/

[–]Deipnoseophist 9 points10 points11 points 9 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

This here shows the desperate need for proper research to be done to show the WHO how fucking retarded they are. Reading this article make me sick. Reduces HIV by 60%? Sure, your penis will also come alive and sing you a song. How can the world, and those in power be so wilfully ignorant? It makes me sick.

[–]Lethn 11 points12 points13 points 9 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

You can disprove them using simple mathematics like with any of this nonsense. If the 'uncircumcised' penis is really such a health risk, then why is it that western europe simply isn't as affected by sexual diseases like HIV?

By their logic, men with uncircumcised penises should be at huge risk, but they just fucking aren't. They're acting like the world is going to end if you don't get your dick cut but like with most of this religiously motivated end of the world shite all you need to do is look around you for five seconds and you'll see not chopping off your body part doesn't really effect things.

Now I'll tell you what will seriously effect the chances of infection, a condom that I definitely know. I can't remember where exactly this was, it was something on television or some such? I think a staunch catholic woman who was previously against using condoms had finally given in and realised just how fucked up these beliefs were because either a good portion of her friends and family died in the town she lived in.

https://www.ncronline.org/news/global/pro-condom-activists-kenya-push-back-against-churchs-teaching-abstinence

There's a more detailed article I found on the subject here, one of the major reasons that sexual diseases will be spreading amongst Africans and so on is because of shit like this. You won't hear the feminists talk about that though, nope, got to get that pesky foreskin chopped off because it looks fugly hurrr.

[–]Deipnoseophist 8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

That's the whole point isn't it? My mind is blown how someone like the WHO, who is supposed to care about facts and reality can be pushing for this bullshit. It's really making me feel like a crazy conspiracy theorist. Like I must be going mad. What the fuck is going on...

[–]codaclouds 7 points8 points9 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It IS a conspiracy. You'd be mad to believe otherwise.

[–]Lethn 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They get hijacked, just like Oxfam and other supposed charity groups are being hijacked by a bunch of fanatical feminists and anti-capitalists. I suspect this is on purpose precisely to make you think that they're supposed to still be respectable organisations, a lot of people are still falling for it.

[–]ThirdTurnip 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

It might be that they're resigned to this as the lesser evil.

WHO can't stop the church ranting about how using condoms will send you to hell.

WHO can advocate for a medical procedure which may provide some protection against diseases which condoms would be much more effective against.

I'm still horrified and disappointed though.

[–]Deipnoseophist 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Well, I can see how that would make sense in some cases but in this particular situation, the people from WHO should surely be able to see the absolute lack of evidence surrounding circumcision as HIV prevention. It seems like an awful lot of money and resources to waste on something that may have no result at all. Also the target audience here is not one oppressed by religion. It's mostly poorer people who may not think condoms to be important.

[–]ThirdTurnip 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

...WHO should surely be able to see the absolute lack of evidence surrounding circumcision as HIV prevention...

Unfortunately you may be wrong about that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision_and_HIV

I'm 500% against infant circumcision and this campaign makes me very uneasy, but it does appear to be driven by evidence.

I had thought that female to male transmission was nigh impossible anyway but apparently that's only true in the west where the virus has mutated.

The type of HIV found in the US is very hard to transmit woman to man. That is because it mutated into a strictly blood-borne virus for some reason, possibly due to ease of transmission through needles and the high amount of homosexual sex we have in the West. In other parts of the world, the virus is not only blood borne -titers are also high in other fluids.

[–]Deipnoseophist 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Read the next paragraph of that wiki article though. No conclusive evidence.

So far as I know the only "evidence" is based on a single bullshit study performed in Africa which has had numerous holes poked in it. There's simply no data to support this.

[–]ThirdTurnip 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

The wiki article doesn't say that. It says exactly the opposite.

Evidence supports that male circumcision prevents HIV infection in men who have sex with women.

[–]Deipnoseophist 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Well I'm confused. This is literally the second line:

A meta-analysis of data from fifteen observational studies of men who have sex with men found "insufficient evidence that male circumcision protects against HIV infection or other STIs."[8] The CDC concludes "There are as yet no convincing data to help determine whether male circumcision will have any effect on HIV risk for men who engage in anal sex with either a female or male partner, as either the insertive or receptive partner."

[–]ThirdTurnip 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Well I'm confused.

You're missing a key detail.

Evidence supports that male circumcision prevents HIV infection in men who have sex with women.

A meta-analysis of data from fifteen observational studies of men who have sex with men found "insufficient evidence that male circumcision protects against HIV infection or other STIs."

[–]WikiTextBot 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Circumcision and HIV

Evidence supports that male circumcision prevents HIV infection in men who have sex with women. In 2011, the WHO and the Joint United Nations Programme on HIV/AIDS (UNAIDS) stated that male circumcision could be an efficacious intervention for HIV prevention if carried out by well trained medical professionals and under clean conditions. The United States Disease Control Center states that circumcision reduces the risk that a man will acquire HIV and other STIs from an infected female partner.


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[–]Notyobabydaddy -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I googled it and...... there appears to be a study that supports this:

webMD/CDC

LiveScience

Canadian government sponsored site

[–]Rockbottom503 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Wonder if they'll run a 'suck it up sister' campaign to get women to go get circumcised!

[–]93re2 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

When a study found that circumcised women had a lower HIV rate, they concluded that it was due to "irreducible confounding"

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/265824402_Female_Circumcision_and_HIV_Infection_in_Tanzania_for_Better_or_for_Worse

There are confounding variables that were not controlled for with the male RCTs that showed a 2% absolute risk reduction (commonly reported in the media is the figure of a 60% relative risk reduction, but the absolute risk reduction they found was only 2%). But that's hardly discussed.

For women, when they found a lower rate of HIV in the mutilated ones, it was 'there must be some missing piece of the puzzle'.

For men, when they found a lower rate of HIV in the mutilated ones, it was 'cut cut cut!'

And they're calling it "VMMC", "voluntary medical male circumcision". But it's often NOT been voluntary. The men are not being told what they really are getting cut off (no informed consent), and boys are getting lured with candy and kidnapped to be forcibly circumcised). And cultures in Africa that didn't practice circumcision are getting their histories retconned, because these NGOs are trying to convince them "you have always circumcised" or things along those lines. Very Orwelian, that part.

[–]TibortheChechen 15 points16 points17 points 9 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Racism much?

We tell white men to take 5 seconds while in the shower to keep it clean.

We tell black men they will need surgery instead. Because you know, they are too stupid to take a shower.

[–]avatarAang_n_Appa 10 points11 points12 points 9 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

I don't know if you can really claim racism since circumcision is so prevalent in America anyway, and I think white males are affected more than other demographics (but I don't have any sources; immigrants at least tend to cut less)

[–]Lethn 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ever heard the phrase "Soft bigotry of low expectations?" it's one of the biggest reasons that the progressives are such an obstacle when dealing with these sorts of cultures or even criticising them. I get where he's coming from though I suspect that feminists and the left push for circumcision less out of any benign reasons but because they hate men that much. We've seen the attitude of feminists in particular towards circumcision.

[–]TibortheChechen 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I am claiming it's racist to tell Africans that they need to do it when we don't do that with whites. Outside of the USA, circumcision is not widely used. Instead they prefer to advise taking a shower.

[–]avatarAang_n_Appa 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

But isn't it mainly just US or US-biased organizations recommending circumcision? As far as I know, Western Europe is generally against circumcision for all boys.

[–]TibortheChechen 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

All of Europe is against it.

Only Jews, Muslims, Americans (63%), and South Koreans do it as a matter of course.

[–]Covalency22 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Huh, wish Canada got the memo to be against it before cutting off part of my white dick.

Whites are told to get rid of part of their dicks, too.

[–]BeefsteakTomato 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

No I don't think you understand u/tiborthechechen , you are a fucking white mail, if your dick is cut it's not actually because of the color of your skin.

[–]TibortheChechen 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

you are a fucking white mail,

white mail?

[–]avatarAang_n_Appa 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Does "all of Europe" include Eastern Europe too? I thought perhaps the influence of Islam may have affected them.

But in that case, there couldn't be racism, right? Advice to wash yourself in the shower is applied to everyone (besides those populations you mentioned)

[–]TibortheChechen 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, it does include Eastern Europe. Recall that it's they who have been the frontline defense for 1400 years of invasions by Muslims.

[–]my_name_is_gato 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, they are.

[–]WildHuntsman 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Or, alternatively, and I know that this may shock you, wear a condom.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Co-Director of CMT, Lucilla Blankenberg, says most of the celebrities involved in the campaign support male circumcision as a way to offer additional protection against HIV, sexually transmitted infections (STIs) and other life-threatening health conditions that face men, such as penile and prostate cancer.

“Men are not immune to these diseases. About 7 million people are living with HIV in our country, and prostate cancer is the most common cancer among South African men. Medical male circumcision has been proven to offer men many protective benefits and there really shouldn’t be any hesitation to undergo the procedure,” said Blankenberg.

The national marketing drive will take on the form of a series of video and radio public service announcements (PSAs), posters and radio interviews that feature the 11 celebs and their messages to other men.

The celebrities have all come on board as ambassadors for CMT’s “Man Up” campaign, because they believe in its message and the aim of reducing HIV in South Africa.

[–]8unn3h 13 points14 points15 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Holy fuck this is sick.

Community Media Trust (CMT) – a not-for-profit company that specialises in communication in the fields of health, human rights and gender based violence

These people are not idiots, there is no way they haven't done their research. They must know it's bullshit, but they promote circumcision anyway. By shaming men into it, telling them to man up. And notice the "gender based violence" part? I'd bet you anything that they're feminists. This IS hatred of men.

From their own pamphlet:

  • Medical Male Circumcision (MMC) reduces a man’s risk of getting HIV by up to 60%. Circumcisions are free and are available at many government clinics and hospitals. Ask at your clinic for your nearest MMC site.
  • Circumcision only provides partial protection. You must still use a condom every time you have sex-even if you are circumcised.
  • Reducing your number of sexual partners reduces your chances of getting HIV.
  • Being drunk lowers your inhibitions and may increase risky sexual behaviour. Reduce your alcohol intake.
  • You can have sex and not get HIV by using a condom every time.

Why mutilate your dick removing the most sensitive parts of it when all you have to do is wear a condom and wash regularly? Even if you choose not to wear a condom just pee right after sex and wash your dick thoroughly and that 60% figure of theirs will plummet. Fuck.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points14 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

so either you wear a condom, or cut up your dick AND wear a condom?

[–]ThirdTurnip 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Does make the snip seem entirely redundant, doesn't it?

But that's in the pamphlet. Most people won't bother to read that. People will listen to celebs telling them to 'man up' and get the snip.

Though with that in the pamphlet they cover themselves for the inevitable cases of men who get snipped and still contract HIV. They can sit back and say, "Well didn't you read the pamphlet?"

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points14 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

because giving them condoms is much too difficult, instead you need to cut up their dick.

[–]Jackoffalltrades89 -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Thought that was Country Music Television at first, was very confused.

[–]93re2 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Vaguely related:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB25bqV1j6Q

[–]video_descriptionbot 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

SECTION CONTENT
Title God Hates The Tips
Description Provided to YouTube by Warner Music Group God Hates The Tips · Trevor Moore Drunk Texts To Myself ℗ 2013 Comedy Central Records Auto-generated by YouTube.
Length 0:02:57

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