Yeah, but if you're a black person (or a white person) who grows up in a ghetto, your life overall is probably not the most awesome there is. Granted, not as bad as if you are a male raised in a ghetto, but not the greatest all the same. As much as possible I try not to kick a person when they might be down.
Interesting. Yes, disparity, but no study really analogous study to the one on gender study cited.
The only study with appropriate controls included for comparison that I can see is one study, from Philadelphia:
"A Philadelphia study of 3,475 juvenile delinquents found that police referred lower class boys to juvenile court much more often than upper class boys, even for equally serious offenses with similar prior arrest records. When it came to upper class boys, the police were more inclined to treat the matter informally with their parents. (10) "
But the referred study at reference 10 is from 1973! Can't be considered relevant now, 43 years later.
Other studies are likewise old and obsolete:
"One study interviewed 847 males and females between the ages of 13 and 16, and found that 88 percent of them admitted to committing at least one delinquent offense. But 88 percent of these youth do not have police records; generally, only the poorest do. (9)"
... that study is from 1972.
"One study found that most public defenders spend an average of five to ten minutes with their clients; even then the subject of conversation is not the facts of the case, but plea-bargaining strategies. (11) "
That reference is from 1971.
"Not surprisingly, public defenders win dismissals or acquittals in 17 percent of their cases, compared to 18 percent for assigned attorneys, and 36 percent for privately hired counsel. (12) "
No controls for confounding variables. Reference from 1970.
Got any references with appropriate controls that are recent and relevant?
Those who are male do not face the same "justice" as those who are female, it's not just unique to a specific income.
No real basis for argument there, but I see your point. You think the magnitude of income -based discrimination is worse than the magnitude of gender based discrimination.
I would just point out that a 60% sentencing discrepancy between males and females after a 60% sentencing differential between males and females after controlling for income, crime, severity of crime, race, prior criminal record, along with a host of factors, that's large.
It doesn't even account for differences in arrest rates, early parole, or other factors.
And, it's for Federal courts, which allegedly assert greater objectivity than state or local ones.
Plus, there is a good argument to be made that access to good lawyers is not discrimination that is directly caused by governments -- it's just something that is out there that the government has chosen not to actively remedy. In contrast, disparate sentencing between males and females is a form of active discrimination by government that has nothing to do with social circumstance. There are basically police, prosecutors, and judges out there, that are saying: you have a penis, therefore we are going to sentence you for an average of 60% more. Truly deplorable.
[–]Apexbreed 31 points32 points33 points (6 children) | Copy Link
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Yeah, but if you're a black person (or a white person) who grows up in a ghetto, your life overall is probably not the most awesome there is. Granted, not as bad as if you are a male raised in a ghetto, but not the greatest all the same. As much as possible I try not to kick a person when they might be down.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/11/men-women-prison-sentence-length-gender-gap_n_1874742.html
It doesn't bother you if your government hands people with penises 60% longer sentences for the same crime in same circumstance, same criminal record?
Were you bothered by Jim Crow?
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Not only.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome
[–]Cagg 8 points9 points10 points (10 children) | Copy Link
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Interesting. Yes, disparity, but no study really analogous study to the one on gender study cited.
The only study with appropriate controls included for comparison that I can see is one study, from Philadelphia:
"A Philadelphia study of 3,475 juvenile delinquents found that police referred lower class boys to juvenile court much more often than upper class boys, even for equally serious offenses with similar prior arrest records. When it came to upper class boys, the police were more inclined to treat the matter informally with their parents. (10) "
But the referred study at reference 10 is from 1973! Can't be considered relevant now, 43 years later.
Other studies are likewise old and obsolete:
"One study interviewed 847 males and females between the ages of 13 and 16, and found that 88 percent of them admitted to committing at least one delinquent offense. But 88 percent of these youth do not have police records; generally, only the poorest do. (9)"
... that study is from 1972.
"One study found that most public defenders spend an average of five to ten minutes with their clients; even then the subject of conversation is not the facts of the case, but plea-bargaining strategies. (11) "
That reference is from 1971.
"Not surprisingly, public defenders win dismissals or acquittals in 17 percent of their cases, compared to 18 percent for assigned attorneys, and 36 percent for privately hired counsel. (12) "
No controls for confounding variables. Reference from 1970.
Got any references with appropriate controls that are recent and relevant?
[–]Cagg 1 point2 points3 points (5 children) | Copy Link
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Yeah, Joe Biden is known for being not that rich -- at least he brags openly about how little money he owns, at least compared to other politicians.
I wouldn't make too many assumptions about his niece.
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I didn't say that.
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Those who are male do not face the same "justice" as those who are female, it's not just unique to a specific income.
No real basis for argument there, but I see your point. You think the magnitude of income -based discrimination is worse than the magnitude of gender based discrimination.
I would just point out that a 60% sentencing discrepancy between males and females after a 60% sentencing differential between males and females after controlling for income, crime, severity of crime, race, prior criminal record, along with a host of factors, that's large.
It doesn't even account for differences in arrest rates, early parole, or other factors.
And, it's for Federal courts, which allegedly assert greater objectivity than state or local ones.
Plus, there is a good argument to be made that access to good lawyers is not discrimination that is directly caused by governments -- it's just something that is out there that the government has chosen not to actively remedy. In contrast, disparate sentencing between males and females is a form of active discrimination by government that has nothing to do with social circumstance. There are basically police, prosecutors, and judges out there, that are saying: you have a penis, therefore we are going to sentence you for an average of 60% more. Truly deplorable.
[–]emjaytheomachy 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link