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More women than men are jailed over TV licenses. BUT far more women are prosecuted and caught without a TV licence,, which is not mentioned in the article.

furchfur

January 18, 2017
80 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4130060/More-women-men-jailed-TV-licenses.html
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Title More women than men are jailed over TV licenses. BUT far more women are prosecuted and caught without a TV licence,, which is not mentioned in the article.
Author

furchfur

Upvotes 80
Comments 53
Date January 18, 2017 7:54 AM UTC
(9 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/5oo4bx/more_women_than_men_are_jailed_over_tv_licenses/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/more-women-than-men-are-jailed-over-tv-licenses.933816
https://theredarchive.com/post/933816
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Comments

[–]furchfur[S] 26 points27 points28 points 9 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

He said: ‘There is no reason why women would be evading the TV licence more so it is clearly the enforcement process which is disproportionately resulting in women being prosecuted.’

Lots of men do not Have a TV. but nearly all single mothers do.

[–]xNOM 9 points10 points11 points 9 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

Well... to me it sounds more like noone knows why more women are being jailed. Everyone seems to be just making shit up. What's clear is:

  • Anytime women are at a disadvantage everyone has a panic attack: "Former Tory culture secretary John Whittingdale called for the problem to be looked at with ‘great urgency’." And anytime women are at an advantage everyone praises them like they're 8-year-old children: less likely to cause fatal car crashes, more likely to invest conservatively, less likely to be murderers, etc. etc.

  • It's probably not judicial bias since this would then be one of the ONLY crimes women are more likely than men to be jailed for when found guilty. The other tipoff here is that even the gynofanatics aren't trying to suggest this. They have come up with a 'more likely to answer the door' theory instead. What are they going to do about this. Start using paper bills only? Yeah that'll work... /s

  • It's entirely conceivable that women are just more likely to not pay it. Just like they are more likely to not pay child support if they are required to. But I don't see any actual data here.

EDIT: This all being said, I find the idea of jailing someone over a TV tax to be ridiculous. Either the BBC is a public utility or a pay per view service. They can't have it both ways. They should just add mandatory sales taxes to data subscriptions and devices with over-the-air tv tuners. Yes some people will be subsidizing others. So what. Older childless people subsidize parents all the time. I think it's more likely to be wealthy people who watch less tv anyway.

[–]Imnotmrabut 7 points8 points9 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

They are not jailed for not paying the license. The Law Does Not Allow Them To Be Jailed, Only FINED!

They are jailed for refusing to pay the levied fines.... Repeatedly in court!

In 2013, 178,332 people in England and Wales were proceeded against under the Wireless Telegraphy Acts. 153,369 were found guilty. However, only 32 of those went to prison that year. (15 men Vs 17 Women)

https://recombu.com/digital/article/tv-licence-fee-myths-busted#

[–]the_unseen_one 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Being tossed in a debtor's prison isn't any better.

[–]xNOM 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

TIL

[–]Rethgil 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wondered how long it would be before someone tried to derail without anything concrete or specific to say.

[+]oafsalot points 9 years ago* [recovered] (11 children) | Copy Link

Have to speak up here. They do target women, it's easier to intimidate them on the door, with threats. Their methods are very much designed to get people to confess. In fact a confession is the only way they can get a conviction.

I have had a lot of first hand experience as an advocate for these sorts of cases. They're totally corrupt bastards.

[–]Imnotmrabut 8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Having also been and advocate representing such people - and having also spoken to enforcement officers direct of their experiences .... the most common reason a person is caught is that when the enforcement officers calls they see the TV in use through the window!

I'm not sure how that is sexist - unless you see windows as Gendered issue?

I'm also aware that such enforcement officers are now no longer obliged to wear body cams to protect themselves from false allegations.

Of course the most common false claim was attempting to sexually assault a lone female ... and also being offered sex as a way to make the Missing Licence issue vanish.

It seems that since the TV Licensing authority has stopped accepting false reports on staff the rate of ladies held accountable has gone up!

[+]oafsalot points 9 years ago* [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

If you advocated for people then you'd know that using a TV isn't a reason for enforcement.

The law required that the TV be used in real time to watch shows as they're broadcast. Just seeing a TV isn't sufficient.

Also, enforcement officers aren't authorised to perform surveillance, so they're not legally allowed to look into the window.

[–]Imnotmrabut 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

If you advocated for people then you'd know that using a TV isn't a reason for enforcement.

You seem to need to imply that I'm daft! I haven't said what you seem to think.

The law required that the TV be used in real time to watch shows as they're broadcast. Just seeing a TV isn't sufficient.

Can you point me to were I have said otherwise? I'm always amused when dealing with one client who does not watch TV, but has 72 inch TV which they use as a computer monitor. It's amazing how many zealots demand that they do need a TV licence when legally they don't.

Also, enforcement officers aren't authorised to perform surveillance, so they're not legally allowed to look into the window.

Surveillance has not been implied, so I wonder where you get it from. However, standing at a the door and seeing a TV showing BBC live can be taken as clear evidence that a license is likely required. It may not be required on age grounds or disability!

The enforcement officer is allowed to ask about what they can see - and if they See a TV switched on and showing live material they are allowed to ask about it. That is quite different to sitting covertly in a black van for weeks spying to see if Panorama is being watched!

[+]oafsalot points 9 years ago* [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

They can do exactly three things.

Walk to the door, knock on the door, read a caution and leave. Sorry that was four. The home owner can say 'fuck you, leave,' and 'I'm not answering your questions or signing your statement.' And then they must leave.

If they remain, if they advise, if they imply or even outright threaten, if they say 'oh well I'll be back' or if they say 'I'm writing here you have a TV', then they're causing harassment, alarm or distress to the home owner and they aught to be charged with it. Even if everything they say is true, but they have been asked to leave, it's still a crime for them to remain on the premises and say a fucking word to the home owner.

Almost every single time they get a conviction, they get a confession by implying or intimidating a person to confess when they read thier caution.

If they deviate from a path between the entry and the front door to look in a window that is surveillance as per the descriptions in RIPA. And they can't do that without a warrant.

If they can tell what is live TV without also themselves having a TV to compare it to I'll eat my hat. How can they know to any standard what is being watched.

TV licensing enforcement is a racket, the people who operate it are scum bags. They do evil to the poor and the vulnerable and use the law to hide it.

[–]Imnotmrabut 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Tis amazing that you seem to believe I've said so much in contradiction of your beliefs.

You do seem to be Churchillian in your ways. P¬))

[+]oafsalot points 9 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Just this subject get's my back up!!!! They really are the worst.

Sorry if I come off poorly... Really.

[–]Imnotmrabut 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I know how it feelz. You should see me in full screed over Direct disability discrimination in the NHS and other Public Services.

If you think TV Licence enforcement officers are bad, you should see my take on Hospital Staff and Doctors and their on going Institutional Disability Discrimination. Do you have any idea of the number of assaults carried out daily in the NHS and covered up? Always go private as there you have staff with no diamond chips on their shoulders from the crown jewels of the welfare state! P¬))

[–]andejoh 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They do target women

Ummm, no. From the article,

"Some 20 women in England and Wales went to prison in 2015 over their TV licence, up from 11 the year before, revealed figures released by the Ministry of Justice under the Freedom of Information Act."

"Overall, the number jailed after dodging the TV licence fell from 39 to 38 but women evaders now account for more than half of these. "

The year before there were 39 people jailed 28 men and 11 women. So what, they were targeting men last year or maybe men learned not to answer the door?

[–]Rethgil 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What on earth are you on about. The issue is legal punishment not abstract personal notions of 'intimidation'.

[–]Pumbloom 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Out of curiosity, how does the British government find out you're not paying a TV license?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Signals or something. No one in my house is paying a TV license, though. We tell them to fuck off whenever they come around.

[–]Fuck_Brooke_Shields 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Same way they know if you've taxed your car or not, it goes in a database. If there's no license listed for an address they may choose to send 'reminder' letters and then subsequently inspectors.

[–]rawbface 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Tax your car? We pay a one-time sales tax on the car when we submit the title paperwork. And you can write whatever sale price you want on the line. I don't see how that applies to a TV license.

Unless you mean vehicle registration, which gets renewed every 1-5 years depending on the car or the state. But do you really have to register when you buy a new TV??

[–]Imnotmrabut 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

All relevant purchase of TV are notified to the TV Licensing Authority and should you not have a TV licence at the relevant address you get chased for the money.

[–]rawbface 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Damn, that's some serious big brother shit.

What if I pay cash for the TV? Do they ask for your address? What about buying used TVs from craigslist and such?

[–]Imnotmrabut 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Retailers are obliged to notify - the law is silent on private sales.

[–]rawbface 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Sorry, I'm really curious about this.

To what extent is their obligation? Like if I pay with a credit card, my name and address is attached to the transaction. But if I pay cash, would they ask for additional information? Would I be denied a sale for refusing to disclose my name and address?

I feel like in the USA we have so many layers of ridiculous beaurocratic bullshit, so to discover a new one we didn't think of is really fascinating.

[–]Imnotmrabut 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Would I be denied a sale for refusing to disclose my name and address?

Yes!

The retailer can be prosecuted and fined if they make the sale and fail to provide the relevant data to the authorities.

Just been double checking - The actual provision for retailers to notify on sales was repealed in 2013 - coming into affect 25th June 2013. Prior to that a retailer faced a £10,000 fine per sale that was not correctly recorded. It just shows how long It's been for me shopping for New or Used TV equipment. LOL

[–]rawbface 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wow. I'd like to say that would never fly in the US, but who the fuck knows anymore. I'm sure we have regulated things that are just as absurd.

[–]Fuck_Brooke_Shields 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_Excise_Duty

[–]EpicSoren 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

What's a TV license? Honestly curious, because I've never owned a TV subscription and (in the US at least) purchasing a TV doesn't require one...

[–]xNOM 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

They levy a tax to support the BBC and other public broadcasting. But they try to make it so that only the people who actually use it, pay for it. You get a bill for it. It's not on your tax return. It's like this in other parts of Europe as well.

[–]JestyerAverageJoe 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

How the hell do they know if you use it? Do they have some sort of water meter but for TV signals?

[–]xNOM 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

They knock on your door and ask you.

[–]JestyerAverageJoe 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

So how could they ever prove you were lying if you said "I don't have a TV?"

[–]xNOM 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/detection-and-penalties-top5

[–]perplexedm 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

So, you get a Set Top Box and have to pay the bills for channel package you opt for, right ?

Asking because to get jailed for TV license payment is new to hear.

[–]xNOM 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Well no because the BBc is also on the internet and normal broadcast TV.

[–]Lethn 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

The reason so many people hate the license fee is because of how invasive and aggressive the BBC have been getting in targeting people over not paying it. Essentially, many of the BBC fanatics out there are trying to argue that if you even listen to radio or watch live television you should be forced to pay for it.

The reason this is a bad thing is because it's the equivalent of targeting somebody for glancing through the window of a gallery at a painting and not paying the entrance fee. There was an actual case I remember where a copyright troll lawyer type tried to sue a restaurant or something I think for having the radio on and it was playing music that was copyrighted.

The government in the UK literally thinks it can claim ownership over airwaves, because of this even I'm tempted to prove them wrong by building my own radio transmitter, it isn't even that hard, plenty of tutorials out there that show people how to do it. Problem is, their monopoly law is so aggressive you can get prosecuted for even interfering with BBC radio for example on a local level.

[–]perplexedm 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Thanks for info and effort.

[–]Lethn 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No problem, I just thought I'd make it clear, I think the term 'fee' when it comes to the license fee is very misleading, perhaps intentionally so and a lot of people outside the UK don't realise what it actually entails.

If you don't declare that you don't want to pay the license fee or also I think simply not pay it they'll actually send these dodgy representatives over to your house in order to harass you about it. There's actually a small movement over the whole thing where people are recording their interactions with these reps and it's all extremely weird.

I guess the correct way to describe the fee would be a tax but the BBC doesn't use official channels to pursue people who don't want to pay.

[–]xNOM 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I wonder what fraction of British adults actually watch it / listen to it.

[–]Lethn 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sadly a quite large number still do, I mean, the numbers are dwindling thank fuck, but like with outlets like the Guardian the left leaning think it's almost their 'duty' to support organisations like this, because fuck having honest media and let's all have propaganda mouthpieces instead right?

[–]Imnotmrabut 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You need to be covered by a TV Licence to

  • watch or record live TV programmes on any channel
  • download or watch any BBC programmes on iPlayer – live, catch up or on demand.

This applies to any provider you use and any device, including a TV, desktop computer, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, games console, digital box or DVD/VHS recorder.

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one

All purchases of a TV (New or used) have to be notified to the government by retailers.

[–]Rasalom72 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So if you never watch live programming (mostly sports I guess), and never watch BBC (because fuck that feminist channel), then you wouldn't have to pay (assuming you didn't just tell them to fuck off when they came to your door)?

[–]perplexedm 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Seven out of ten prosecutions for licence fee evasion are against women, the figures also showed.

Former Tory culture secretary John Whittingdale called for the problem to be looked at with ‘great urgency’.

‘There is no reason why women would be evading the TV licence more so it is clearly the enforcement process which is disproportionately resulting in women being prosecuted.’

It is an archaic tax indeed, playing gender politics over that is again ridiculous.

Higher number of women broke low, so they are in jail. If it was men, they would've ended up in jail. Seems men are not at all interesting in going to jail for such a silly tax.

[–]andejoh 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

OMG now more women are breaking the law than men. We must change the law, but not when more men were breaking it than women.

[–]trytoinjureme 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Reminds me how the UK has a special advocacy group for women in prison while I can't find anything comparable for men who comprise 95% of UK prisons.

Men in prison is considered the norm. Women in prison implies they were abused or in some sort of desparate situation that caused them to be criminal.

[–]thrway_1000 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

https://archive.is/44dv6

[–]TacticalTaco01 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm American, can someone explain what a TV license is?

[–]Rethgil 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This actually says a lot and is PROOF we have been seeking that shows how men are unfairly treated by a sexist legal system. It is as close to a laboratory study as is possible since the crime in question is quite clear cut and has no wriggle room depending on gender, which leaves the only conclusion that the courts are letting women get away with things simply because of their gender, while punishing men for the same thing. There are no questions of "he/she couldn't have done it because of their strength/size/are a woman or man". This proves women get off easy. We need to share this story and get someone to analyse it further.

[–]Rethgil 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

For people who don't know what a TV license is and have posted many questions, the issue is simply that for the same crime men are being punished more harshly than women in the courts.

[–]mwobuddy 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What a dumb country. You need to have a LICENSE to own a home electronics equipment.

[–]trytoinjureme 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I love how people bring up prison inequalities without even briefly thinking about whether there exist offense inequalities, at least not when the disparaged class is one they like.

Like when it comes to violent crime, people are willing to note that men in general commit more violent offenses thereby justifying the disproportionality, but if you mention how black men specifically commit even more violent crime people lose their shit and refuse to believe that they're prosecuted more for any other reason than bigotry.

[–]DeepQantas 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Defund BBC. Can't get fairer than that.

[–]DailMail_Bot -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If you prefer not to click on Daily Mail sources, then here is a screenshot of the original article.

I've also autogenerated some potential alternative sources to this story, here (they may not be entirely accurate!):

More women than men are jailed over TV licenses

Arrest made in attempted assassination of US consulate in ...

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