How do I argue against "male privelege"?

aussietoads · 2016-11-28T22:22:58+00:00

Tell feminists you agree and your privilege entitles you to tell them to fuckoff.

thrway_1000 · 2016-11-28T20:36:46+00:00

You don't, you can't. That's the point of it, it's a thought terminating cliché. It's a tactic used to villainize and quiet dissent. It's basically original sin; you can't argue against it, you can't disprove it, and you're evil because of it. Like with all groups you need an outgroup to attack to justify your own bad actions, this allows them to feel okay about doing bad things for the "right reasons". Best tactic is to ignore or laugh and move on. People who talk about and use the feminist meaning of privilege have no concept of reality.

functionalsociopathy · 2016-11-28T20:54:52+00:00

When they bring up the wage gap correct them by pointing out that it's an earnings gap, not a wage gap, and women can earn as much as men if they're willing to work as hard as men.

ThePigmanAgain · 2016-11-28T23:48:57+00:00

"Oh, yeah, i'm real privileged. That's why i'm going to die younger. That's why i'm less likely to get a degree. That's why i'm more likely to die from violence, accidents or suicide, because i am sooooo privileged. That's why i'm more likely to end up living in a cardboard box or in a jail cell, because i am soooo privileged! Yeah, i'm so fucking privileged it's killing me!"

McFeely_Smackup · 2016-11-29T00:09:04+00:00

the entire concept of privilege is a logical fallacy, specifically a textbook example of "Association Fallacy".

They point at some truly privileged men, and say "look how rich and powerful those men are, men have all the power"...the logic breakdown comes from confusing "some men" with "all men".

The fact that every single President of the United States has been male is undeniable, but that doesn't bestow any authority on Joe Smith who collects garbage in Philly. So it's an intellectual failure on every level to point at Barack Obama and say "see Joe, see how lucky you are" especially if you start with the premise that Joe is forbidden to point at Hillary Clinton and say how lucky all women are.

Association is not equivalence.

Lethn · 2016-11-28T20:28:30+00:00

Depends on how determined you are, many of these feminists will come from highly privileged backgrounds themselves so if you can find out what sort of families or neighbourhoods they come from you could just point that out and they'll potentially scurry off or try to start shit with you even worse. You could maybe even just end up finding out their information on facebook if you know them personally anyway.

There was a great story about one cunt who was trying to start a fight with this guy called Tommy Robinson ( This was on the Rubin Report if you want to look him up ) and he was calling him a racist etc. he found out where this guy lived on facebook and the guy was living in a rich neighourhood where not one migrant was and in a very expensive house.

I do wonder if by all these usually white feminists and anti-capitalists calling all white men privileged are desperately trying to distract from their own incredible privilege in order to fit in with their cultist buddies.

probably_a_squid · 2016-11-28T21:41:20+00:00

Your first goal is to see if the person you're talking to is willing to consider that they may be wrong. Some people take it for granted that men are privileged. Any evidence supporting it is used to strengthen their belief, and any evidence against it is minimalists or outright dismissed.

First I would ask whoever I'm talking to what evidence would convince them that men are not not privileged. In other words, how would you tell the difference between a world with male privilege and a world without it?

If they can't answer that question, there is no reason to continue talking to that person about it. This is also a generally good question to ask yourself about everything you believe. If you can't answer the question "what would convince me otherwise?" then you need to reevaluate your way of thinking.

nick012000 · 2016-11-28T23:49:44+00:00

If they're intersectional feminists (or at all concerned with race issues), ask them if they consider the racial gap in arrests and criminal sentencing to be indicative of white privilege/systematic discrimination against black people/POC.

If they do, ask them then how they would consider the far greater gender gap in arrests and criminal sentencing, where men are far more likely to be arrested/face longer sentences than women.

The idea is essentially to get them to question their own beliefs. Rather than try to persuade them of your position, let them explain theirs - press them to explain as much as they can, and inconsistencies in their worldview will become apparent.

EricAllonde · 2016-11-29T00:56:17+00:00

The key thing to realise is that feminism is just an ideology.

Feminists like to dress it up with sciencey-sounding words like "theory" (e.g. "patriarchy theory"), but they're simply using the same tactics as creationists and antivaxxers. They're trying to borrow the credibility and authority of science to give their ideology more weight & influence than, say, Scientology - a somewhat similar culty ideology to which feminism can reasonably be compared.

But when you dig into it, there's zero scientific basis for feminism. There's no scientific or evidentiary substance to it, feminism is simply a religion-like/cult-like belief system that some women choose to adopt based on their personal preferences, or as a result of indoctrination by those close to them.

You can simply explain to feminists that you don't accept their ideology, you don't believe in their religion, so doctrine like the idea of "privilege" isn't relevant to you.

Tell them that it's like Santa Clause: if you were to talk at length about how Santa knows which kids have been naughty, how fast his sleigh travels, the poor working conditions of the elves who make his presents etc etc - all of that would leave the feminist hearing it completely unmoved because she doesn't believe in the myth of Santa Claus, and rightly so. Then explain that you feel exactly the same way about feminism and all its little details.

TL;DR: Don't play their game by taking feminism seriously when doing so isn't warranted by the facts.

anunusualname · 2016-11-29T03:56:47+00:00

WHY IS THAT YOUR JOB? That's the whole point of the privilege argument to begin with: rather than THEM have to prove that someone actually DID SOMETHING TO THEM, they make a blanket accusation against YOU and then leave it up to YOU to defend yourself.

Just say "I believe in equality for everyone and if you have specific instances of inequality against women, we can discuss that, provided that we can also discuss instances of inequality against men. I am not obligated to defend myself against a vague stereotype. Stereotypes are demeaning and inaccurate. I am not a gender. I am a human."

CircuitousLogic · 2016-11-29T15:27:49+00:00

Agree with hyperbole. Evidence will not work, you need to trigger their cognitive dissonance.

"I agree, we need equal representation in the boardroom, in government, and in the coal mines. More women trash collectors!"

If you give me a few of their positions I can give you some ammo.

Personally I would love to see a feminist motivational speaker at a homeless shelter. Not a women's homeless shelter, just a homeless shelter.

xNOM · 2016-11-29T01:18:40+00:00

Just ask them to demonstrate a single male privilege.

They will invariably point to unequal outcomes. They are too stupid to separate individuals from an entire gender or to separate opportunities from outcomes.

Honestly, don't even enter the ring. These people are too stupid to argue with.

chocoboat · 2016-11-29T02:50:42+00:00

I agree with people in this sub that the concept of male privilege is so mis-used and abused that it's rarely worth discussing with a feminist. These days it's used more often just to say "shut up because you're male and we don't want to hear what men have to say" and "everything is your fault because penis", than it is used to discuss actual privilege. You're wasting your time arguing with hateful people like that, you might as well try to convince the KKK that racism is bad.

But if you think you have a good reason (like trying to discuss the issue with someone who is a friend of yours), here's my suggestion.

First, acknowledge that male privilege exists, because it does. Male privilege doesn't mean "all men always get treated better", it only means "there are some situations where men get treated better". Car salesmen won't try to rip off men as badly as women (who they view as uninformed). Customers sometimes don't trust a female mechanic or a woman working at an electronics store, and ask for a male employee instead. Women who play online games have to deal with the retarded teenagers who start making sexual comments if they find out they're talking to a girl. There are lots of situations where it's better or easier to be male.

Second, demonstrate that female privilege exists too. Show them this and this. Also bring up other situations where women are advantaged - like when men who become teachers are treated like potential child predators who they don't dare to leave alone with a child, or how women who need help with something are far more likely to have someone willing to help them than a man would, and how women can receive scholarships and receive a huge competitive advantage over men when applying for jobs when they enter a STEM field.

If they're capable of reason, they'll understand that both men and women get some advantages and some disadvantages in their lives, that none of this is fair, and that few people actually want it to be this way.

If not, they'll get angry and insist that female privilege somehow magically doesn't count, and that the disadvantages men face don't matter because everything is men's fault, and so on.

MagicTampon · 2016-11-29T05:37:58+00:00

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Rasalom72 · 2016-11-29T07:06:45+00:00

You don't need to prove something that doesn't exist. You make them prove their point. And then when they supply you with some opinions, you shoot each one down...

"Please explain how males have rights under the law that women don't?"

"Can you explain how you justify your position?"

2016-11-29T08:33:39+00:00

I usually start with "Can you explain how I have privilege?" This will get whomever is doing the accusing into starting on a topic, or the "Look around you, it's everywhere". Either one can be handled with simple statistical points like "Oh, like how males are doing significantly worse in school" etc. The only points they can make would be fear of going out after dark (despite contrary evidence) or top positions in government or CEO's, all of which can be defeated with a return question of "Do we agree men tend towards riskier behavior", this will shut down just about any retort.

If you find a window, especially after their has been any ground gained on your part, move in with actual hard data - DV rates, sexual assault and rape, earnings, life expectancy, education, suicide, homelessness, empathy gap, etc...

Probably you will lose the popularity battle if there is a group on their side, but one or two might be interested enough to look into things further.

2016-11-29T18:21:31+00:00

If you can handwave away any argument, regardless of how factual and accurate it is, with a blanket statement such as 'privilege', you're privileged.

anunusualname · 2016-11-30T02:30:50+00:00

YOU: Throughout history, men are required to sacrifice their lives for their country, and women are not. HER: Blah blah blah YOU: That isn't giving up your life. HER: Blah blah blah YOU: That isn't giving up your life. Etc.

anunusualname · 2016-11-30T02:33:06+00:00

YOU: Women live longer than men, but society spends more on women's health than men's health. HER: Blah blah blah YOU: Men have shorter lives, and society doesn't think that's important. HER: Blah blah blah YOU: You get more life. That's a privilege that men don't get.

novice_at_life · 2016-11-28T20:26:15+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	How do I argue against "male privelege"?
Author	Dobokdude
Upvotes	8
Comments	31
Date	November 28, 2016 8:22 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/5fdzgc/how_do_i_argue_against_male_privelege/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/how-do-i-argue-against-male-privelege.936790 https://theredarchive.com/post/936790

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