"men not living for women but rather living for themselves".

This is the definition of MGTOW according to most of them. Before you say, "no! MGTOW means not being with women at all!" I have to stop you. Ask any MGTOW, look at any major MGTOW channel, they ALL say that the idea MGTOW's just swear off sex is false and that there are multiple levels to it including many where relationships are present.

So now that we got that out of the way, why am I against this?

Here's the thing, I'm NOT against men living for themselves. I am absolutely in favor of this, but just like feminists they attach a whole load of other bullshit to it.

When talking about mgtow almost every time the MGTOW says, "so you're a man living for yourself and not women, technically you're a MGTOW!". Just fuck off. This is EXACTLY what feminists do. Do you believe the sexes should be equal? Yes? oh so you're a feminist now!

Both have this super vague baseline definition most people agree with, that they thrust onto you and try to reel you in, then toss on a bunch of nonsense once you are in. If you see that bs and try to leave? Wow you must be against their original definition.

Why is MGTOW bad? Let's look at what other ideas they attach. The most popular MGTOW youtuber Sandman, believes women are inherently bad and will be replaced with sex robots.

The second, Turd Flinging monkey, says women should not be allowed to vote.

The third most popular, StarDusk, says similar stuff as well.

Look at the MGTOW forums or their subreddit. It is filled to the brim with rants about how all women are useless blah blah blah. Even if you 100% agree with this, for the love of god understand that associating it with the MRM will destroy us. Men's rights advocacy in the mainstream is NEEDED. Men will never stop being screwed over until they get advocacy in society, right now society gender advocacy is a battle of feminists, who by definition do not care about men's issues, and traditionalists who fuck everyone over. Spreading MGTOW propoganda is just fucking over this goal. Do you believe the genders should be equal/men should live for themselves?

You do? Oh you're a feminist/mgtow then!

Now that that's decided, let's talk about how masculinity is toxic, only women can be abused, and how rape should be guilty until proven innocent/let's talk about how all women are untrustworthy sluts, the government is evil and used by women so you're a libertarian now, and why women shouldn't vote.

Wait what? You don't like that? Wow so I guess you think women shouldn't be equal/men should live to serve others.

See what I mean?

How is Mgtow like theRedPill? Well, what is different? Every time I ask this I get an answer like this;

The redpill is about gaming the system, MGTOW is about opting out. No. No. No.

First off, theRedPill is not just about getting laid, it's about not counting on women. They also encourage not getting into relationships in what they call monk mode.

MGTOW is not just about not getting laid. MGTOW's are allowed to be in relationships and they all say this.

So yes it's fucking stupid. It's a stupid mantra that just like feminism tries to be as vague as possible and reel you into extreme toxicity.