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Looking for information for a school assignment.

trollingsloth · 2016-09-12T06:33:55+00:00

Hey everyone, I'm a year 11 student given the task of gathering information surrounding a topic and create and article/report on it for an end of semester...

trollingsloth

September 12, 2016

8 upvotes

/r/MensRights

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Post Information

Title	Looking for information for a school assignment.
Author	trollingsloth
Upvotes	8
Comments	45
Date	September 12, 2016 6:33 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/52d0q6/looking_for_information_for_a_school_assignment/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/looking-for-information-for-a-school-assignment.941785 https://theredarchive.com/post/941785

Comments

[–]unpicked-username 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]trollingsloth 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]aussiehank 9 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

pick a topic from the ManWomanMyth video series.

[–]trollingsloth 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]splodgenessabounds 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]trollingsloth 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]deez_nuts_730 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]trollingsloth 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]secv808 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]deez_nuts_730 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]trollingsloth 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]deez_nuts_730 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]trollingsloth 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]deez_nuts_730 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I am sorry. My research took a little longer than expected. I ended up gathering a lot of info for you on false accusations and instead of child custody, I found Domestic violence information because I feel this might be an easier argument for you. I will be posting a comment with each one since they are both fairly lengthy. First is false accusations:

False rape accusations are very traumatic. Many force men to the point of suicide. Here are just a few of the many times. http://www.cotwa.info/2015/10/a-national-disgrace-another-young-man.html In the Jay Cheshire case, the mother was even driven to suicide. With nearly 80 percent of suicides being male, I believe we have a found a large culprit in false rape accusations.

Furthermore, the BBC, which has nearly 50% market share in the UK and close to 5 billion pounds in annual funding, has never reported any suicide stemming from a false rape accusation. https://hequal.wordpress.com/2015/10/09/bbc-has-never-reported-a-single-suicide-caused-by-false-rape-allegations/ In their eyes, the unveiling of a spoon statue was more important than the suicide of Jay Cheshire https://hequal.wordpress.com/2015/10/22/ten-stories-the-bbc-considers-more-notable-than-suicides-resulting-from-false-rape-allegations/

Part of the reason for this is that accusers are afforded various “protections” and “rights” when they lodge a complaint. These include anonymity, where the accuser’s identity is protected from all public records, whereas the accused’s name, town, occupation and whatever else can be publicized immediately. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-10760239 If the case is dropped by police before court, the accuser has the right to be notified, whereas the accused does not. http://www.cotwa.info/2010/04/one-of-worst-stories-we-ever-reported.html If the case does make it to court, pertinent information regarding the accusers sexual history cannot be disclosed by the defense. http://www.cotwa.info/2010/06/a-must-read-story-rape-liar-who.html All of these can make a person going through a false rape allegation, feel like they have no hope.

The most common argument against false rape accusations is that the amount of them are incredibly low. Most people believe the number to be 2-8%. This number is incredibly misleading due to factors such as poor research techniques, biased funding of studies, neglecting large portions of data, and false accreditation. In fact, going from the same report, only 7.8% of rapes are true. So what about the other 84.2-91.2% of cases? Read this two part article for an extremely detailed analysis of these figures: http://www.datagoneodd.com/blog/2015/01/25/how-to-lie-and-mislead-with-rape-statistics-part-1/ http://www.datagoneodd.com/blog/2015/01/27/how-to-lie-and-mislead-with-rape-statistics-part-2/ An arguably better study was done by Eugene Kanin, which revealed a number closer to 41% which is referenced and dissected in part one of the above articles.

Finally there is this article which gives a few different studies that have been done which show numbers higher than 2-8% for false rape allegations. http://www.glennsacks.com/column.php?id=105

[–]deez_nuts_730 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Now my second comment for domestic violence:

In Canada, more men than women were reported as victims of domestic violence. http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2016001/article/14303/01-eng.htm

The Partner Abuse State of Knowledge project (PASK) has put together information from around 12,000 studies conducted by 132 sources in the US, Canada, and the UK over a two year period. Their data shows that in three out of four different areas (large population, school/college aged, military, and non-military) rates of perpetration for non-reciprocated violence was higher for females than males. Furthermore, women would more often initiate violence in reciprocal violence. While women were more likely to experience expressive emotional abuse, men were more often subjected to coercive emotional abuse. http://www.domesticviolenceresearch.org/domestic-violence-facts-and-statistics-at-a-glance/

In this next link we see that even when police are called in which men are the victims of domestic violence, the man is more likely to be arrested than the woman. http://wordpress.clarku.edu/dhines/files/2012/01/Douglas-Hines-2011-helpseeking-experiences-of-male-victims.pdf?repost

Despite this evidence, Australia has given a combined 330 million dollars to programs to help with violence against women and children over a period of four years. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/jul/06/rosie-batty-calls-for-funds-as-poll-finds-family-violence-feared-above-terrorism?CMP=soc_567

However, for the first time, the only money that has been given to male victims is a substantially smaller 13 million dollars over the same time period. http://www.antifeminismaustralia.com/news/nsw-to-spend-13-mill-on-male-victims-of-domestic-violence/

Furthermore, Australia’s Department for Child Protection and Family Support refuses to admit that males can be victims of Domestic violence. If one searches their website for DV hotlines, they will see a hotline for women who need help from abusive relationships and a separate one for men who “need help to control” their violent urges. This type of thinking is created by the Duluth Model which is taught to police and law officials.

Additionally, the Room4Change program in Australia, is an incentive to help move men out of their homes when they feel violent tendencies. This once again illustrates Australia’s view as men only being perpetrators of DV. http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-14/anti-domestic-violence-program-aimed-at-men-launched/7508934

This type of problem is a worldwide issue. In 2013, Earl Silverman, the founder of Canada’s ONLY DV shelter for men, killed himself because of lack of funding for his shelter. http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/04/29/earl-silverman-dead-suicide_n_3179850.html

[–]deez_nuts_730 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]trollingsloth 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]deez_nuts_7302 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]JebberJabber 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SolongStarbird 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ISuckAtJiuJitsu -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

[–]ImNotIntoPokemon 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]JakeDC 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]ISuckAtJiuJitsu -2 points-1 points0 points 9 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[–]zangerinus 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]JakeDC 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ISuckAtJiuJitsu -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]zangerinus 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ISuckAtJiuJitsu -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]zangerinus 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]JakeDC 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 9 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]JakeDC 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]trollingsloth 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]secv808 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]JakeDC 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

OK. (Please pardon any typos - I suck at typing on my phone).

Based on the conversation we have had this far, /u/ISuckAtJiuJitsu is expressing a view that is broader that his/her first comment.

The first comment could be read to mean that there may be legitimate men's issues, but this sub is not a good place to learn about them. To that, I would say that this sub is full of lots of people. Some provide good, reliable information about real issues, and make good arguments. Some don't - and far from it. In my experience, the former outweigh the latter, but that may be a YMMV thing, and I suppose perceptions on that issue cannot help but be informed by biases that we all bring to the table. Most subs addressing controversial issues are like this, as are most discussions of controversial issues.

With respect to the foregoing, the takeaway I would give you here is the same takeaway I would give you with respect to other subs and the Internet generally, especially with respect to controversial issues. Read carefully. Consider any sources provided, including what the sources are and what the sources say. Still interested? Look at other sources. Evaluate. Draw conclusions. As part of this, pay close attention to the argments people provide. Are they cogent arguments built on facts? Are they nonsubstantive name-calling? Somewhere in between? A mix? Also, be cautious with stats, as people generally don't understand them very well and, in any event, people on all sides of issues routinely misrepresent and misuse statistics to further their agendas. Look at what the stats actually say. Look at what the researchers involved say. Look for other discussions of the stats, as those discussions are likely to help you wade through the noise and get to the truth (which may be that we don't really have good information on the relevant topic(s) at all).

Based on my later exchanges with /u/ISuckAtJiuJitsu, however, it is clear that his/her view is much broader - men's issues are not a thing at all. Period, full stop. Men (especially cis-gendered white men) get all of the ice cream cones they want. Any man who brings up men's issues/concerns is full of crap, and is simply whining about not getting enough sprinkles on his ice cream cone. Women? They don't get ice cream at all because all men are misogynists. Or at least not enough ice cream, and certainly no sprinkles. You won't find any good information about men's iasues on this sub because no such information could possibly exist. These are lots of problems with this approach, of course. It misrepresents the current state of men generally (everything is always rosy, they never experience unfairness, their motivations are always bad). It misrepresents the current state of women generally (always held down, always second class citizens, always the victim, and always pure and good in their motivations). It silences legitimate discussions and efforts to address real problems based on this false narrative (usually coupled with name calling and shaming, but rarely coupled with actual facts and good arguments). This approach solves nothing and instead perpetuates gender warfare, bitterness, and anger on both sides.

Your takeaway here? If your project at all challenges any aspect of the feminist narrative, you should be prepared to face thsee kinds of attacks/views. They are standard issue. Facts and arguments will not help you, because your opposition does not like, value, or use these things. You will be shut down unfairly, and likely called names and demonized. As a case in point, examine the "discussion" between me and /u/ISuckAtJiuJitsu. I have asked relevant questions and engaged in honest argument. /u/ISuckAtJiuJitsu has called me names, minimized me, demonized me, and refused to join me in rational discussion. This is, unfortunately, the norm, so you likely will face similar treatment. Enjoy!

[–]ISuckAtJiuJitsu -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]JakeDC 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Addendum to earlier reply:

You might think I was being too hard on /u/ISuckAtJiuJitsu and that he/she might be capable of, and willing to, engaged in reasoned discussion. Well, my previous response to you invited /u/ISuckAtJiuJitsu do just that:

/u/ISuckAtJiuJitsu has called me names, minimized me, demonized me, and refused to join me in rational discussion.

/u/ISuckAtJiuJitsu's response?

Aww, poor little douchebag. You're such a victim. It's no wonder you can't handle a long term relationship with a woman and wind up blaming everybody but yourself.

Do you see how this is simply more name calling? Do you see how the meanness and name calling has zero to do with the issues at hand? Similarly, do you see hownit has zero to so with anything I said at all? And, do you see how /u/ISuckAtJiuJitsu accepts - and even takes pride in - his/her unwillingness to engage in discussion? All of this is quite telling.

It could be that /u/ISuckAtJiuJitsu is just a troll. It is hard to tell, because /u/ISuckAtJiuJitsu's approach is so typical and is perfectly in line with what feminists of a certain type almost always do. Poe's Law is relevant here too. But troll or not, you still should be aware that this is what you will be up against. The best approach is not to engage with these types unless they move beyond (or stop) engaging in name calling etc. and instead present you with something of substance. If they fail to do so, congratulations - you have won the argument. Now, I think I need to follow my own advice with respect to /u/ISuckAtJiuJitsu.

[–]ISuckAtJiuJitsu -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]trollingsloth 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]JakeDC 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ISuckAtJiuJitsu 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]JakeDC 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Are you suggesting that to be concerned about something, that something has to have happened to you? That seems odd. Plenty of people are worried about homelessness, even though they have never been homeless. Plenty of people are worried about lack of access to food and water, even though they have not spent a single day of their lives without such access. Plenty of people worry about lack of access to education, even though they were able to obtain whatever education they want. Even if the oft-presented "1 in 5" stat about rape in the US was accurate (good news - it isn't), the majority of people have not been, and will not be, raped. And yet, they still think rape is a bad thing. Etc. The motivator should be real concerns about bad, unfair, etc. things that happen to people in society, not the fact that those things have happened to you specifically. Unless one is severely compassion-impaired.

Nobody should be raped. Have you ever been raped? If so, that if fucking awful. We, as a society, should take intelligent steps to reduce the number of rapes to zero (the only acceptable number) while still respecting fairness, civil rights, and liberal values (this is how we handle violent crime generally). And there is much work to be done. Maybe you personally never have been raped. That is a good thing, but it isn't really relevant to the broader problem of rape, because it still happens to other people.

I wouldn't compare the fact that someone has been raped to not getting sprinkles on one's ice cream. I would say that such a person has, with respect to rape, had the kind of life to which all people are entitled. Nor would I compare someone who hasn't been raped to someone who was lucky enough to get sprinkles. They got the ice cream cone everyone should get.

[–]ISuckAtJiuJitsu 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]JakeDC 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link