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Judge to Kesha: “Every rape is not a gender-motivated hate crime.”

civilsaint

April 7, 2016
236 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.rawstory.com/2016/04/judge-rejects-keshas-sexual-assault-case-every-rape-is-not-a-gender-motivated-hate-crime/
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Post Information
Title Judge to Kesha: “Every rape is not a gender-motivated hate crime.”
Author

civilsaint

Upvotes 236
Comments 67
Date April 7, 2016 1:55 AM UTC
(10 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/4dozdr/judge_to_kesha_every_rape_is_not_a/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/judge-to-kesha-every-rape-is-not-a-gender.952398
https://theredarchive.com/post/952398
Top posts by civilsaint

Woman beats herself up with help of a friend, pees herself to claim rape so her husband will agree to move to better neighborhood. She is in court, her friend is in jail

1478 upvotes
June 14, 2016
/r/PussyPassDenied

Due to a single case (Brock Turner), movement is growing to impose mandatory prison sentences for sexual assault. When will we see something similar for false rape accusations?

1432 upvotes
June 23, 2016
/r/MensRights

Cathy Young - In our current culture, it is impossible for a man to clear himself once he's accused of rape

1019 upvotes
August 24, 2016
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Obama administration is bullying universities into reporting more rapes. Will not visit universities that don't report enough rapes. Shouldn't they REWARD universities that have fewer or no rapes?

815 upvotes
July 5, 2016
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A man is freed from prison after The Innocence Project showed that he was innocent of murder and the 'Duke Rape Prosecutor' withheld exculpatory evidence during his trial

801 upvotes
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Woman tries to create a false rape accusation but her victim is saved by filming it. Bizarre.

696 upvotes
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Judge dismisses lawsuit against Trump for rape, then tells girl she has to pay her own legal fees

556 upvotes
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‘Toxic environment’ for sons accused of campus sex offenses turns mothers into militants

480 upvotes
August 29, 2016
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Comments

[–][deleted] 53 points54 points55 points 10 years ago* (44 children) | Copy Link

Holy shit, there are a lot of hardcore feminists posting in the comments there, "outraged" over the fact that she said that rape could even SOMETIMES not be about hatred (even though in reality it rarely is, and never is completely).

[–][deleted] 35 points36 points37 points 10 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Wow, RawStory just blocked me from the comments section for disagreeing with the narrative.

All my comments were just deleted, and they actually made a reference to "disappearing me", which is literally what communist dictators do to censor dissidents: http://imgur.com/Mvbcoza

This site is pure garbage. Is this a popular site? Or is it nothing to worry about?

[–]SSapplejack 35 points36 points37 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

once I got told in the comments section to "stop pretending to be a girl MRA" ...I'm not pretending. I have a vagina. that place is ridiculous.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Funny thing is, I never even said I was an MRA - they just kept making that assertion based on the fact that I was disagreeing with them. In fact, I wouldn't even really consider myself one so much as an anti-modern-feminist. And they kept on using the same combo of two logical fallacies (straw man and ad hominem), even after they blocked me (saying I was "justifying rape" by saying the motivation is sexual rather than just to demonstrate power).

This is the exact same pattern I've been seeing from modern feminists ever since I learned of their existence years ago: 1.) Ignore the logic and evidence presented, 2.) Constantly launch ad hominem and straw man fallacies, 3.) Block.

[–]Electroverted 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

1.) Ignore the logic and evidence presented, 2.) Constantly launch ad hominem and straw man fallacies, 3.) Block.

I've lost three real-life friends over these kind of tactics. The debate game has really changed over the last decade, and while Fb might make a lot of new friends, they can destroy old ones too.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I've lost three real-life friends over these kind of tactics

Only three? I've lost track of how many I've lost, but it's probably ten times that.

[–]SchalaZeal01 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I read the comments, and they seem to think MRAs are all Roosh ³ regarding consent, with more conservative attitudes than Trump about women's role, and who consider women subhuman and men 'innately superior'. Ain't it projection?

[–]civilsaint[S] 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

According to the extremists, if you support equal rights or MRA, then you might as well not have a vagina.

[–]Electroverted 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't ya know?! Female MRAs are make-believe, just like Santa Claus, black-on-white racism and female-on-male rape.

[–]whos_the_king 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The 1984 style opinion silencing is getting scary lately

[–]civilsaint[S] 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Combine this with Jackie having to testify and there will be heads exploding all over the place.

[–]Antrophis 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well one clean up that solves a lot of problems.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

This is literally the worst hive of extreme feminists I've ever encountered online outside of Jezebel and Buzzfeed.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

and tumblr

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Feminists are addicted to 1980s pop psychology.

Rape is not, in fact, always about power according to actual psychological research. But feminists don't give a shit. They will keep getting that BS written into every TV show they can, because they want it to be true. And that's what feminism is about more than anything else: pretending that what you want to be true, actually is true.

[–]Electroverted 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, that drunk twenty year old college boy, who commits date rape, must sure hate that college girl he was with.

[+][deleted] -8 points-7 points-6 points 10 years ago (27 children) | Copy Link

Rape is usually about control and power and it's just human nature that women are easier to control, Rapists are usually abused at a young age and use rape as a revenge, because they can't hurt their abuser, they target other people.

[–]ethebr11 12 points13 points14 points 10 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Well judging by the fact that most rape is a close acquaintance, wouldn't that support the fact that rape is usually about lust rather than power? Obviously in terms of "they feel powerless because they were rejected so rape" it's about power, but isn't it more about wanting to rape one specific person, ergo lust.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

yes and no, Rape has many different motivators, for some its a case of getting something they feel like they were owed.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

Many different combinations of motivations, sure, but sexual desire is always one of the motivations. Feminists nonsensically insist that sexual desire plays zero role.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

i'm not a feminist, i was merely saying

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units/1981/3/81.03.06.x.html#c

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

First of all, that's not from an actual psychology department - it's a curriculum for some kind of Teacher's Institute. Second, right from the start it's filled with blatantly inaccurate feminist rhetoric - this curriculum is politically motivated propaganda, rather than an actual scientific exploration of the subject by an actual psychology department.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

To be fair i didn't read it, rape isn't something i really look into all that much, i've read in psychology text books i used in college that rape is sexual, but mostly not sexually motivated in a sense, i'll happily accept some real source from yourself that explains rape is about sex and not about power.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I just did a more thorough search - what the evidence shows (ignoring the nonscientific evidence-free feminist sources) is that it's usually a combination of factors, and that it varies between cases - in the most common case it's 100% about sexual gratification, but much less frequently you get extreme psychopaths who lean towards the anger side (but it's still sexual because they're aroused and getting sexual gratification from it).

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201104/is-rape-about-control-or-sex

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3777344/#ref31

http://www.smart.gov/SOMAPI/sec1/ch3_typology.html

http://paloaltoonline.com/weekly/morgue/news/1995_Oct_6.RAPIST1.html

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780123860293000152

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0005796779900366

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociobiological_theories_of_rape

http://courses.washington.edu/evpsych/why%20men%20rape.pdf

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

um... a wiki link.. bit hypocritical :P

[–]JebberJabber 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Feminists nonsensically insist that sexual desire plays zero role.

You seem to make a habit of black and white thinking, which leads to wild exaggeration like this. That isn't what feminists think.

Sexual desire is well recognised as a common component. The point is that the critical ingredient in most rapes is the decision to abuse a power imbalance of some sort. That's what "rape is about power" means.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Show me sources that prove that that that's what feminists really mean - I've had countless arguments and read countless articles that clearly demonstrate that that's not what they mean. In fact, on this very article's comment section, I got banned for arguing that it's not usually about demonstrating power and always involves sexual desire - the commentators very clearly stated they believe it's never about sexual desire at all. And this is consistent with everything else I've heard and read from feminists. Also, this belief lines up nicely with the rest of their ideology about how much men hate all women and want to hurt them all.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

If the main motivation were to dominate and show power, why would they use their penis? Why not just put them in a chokehold? Why not just knock them out with a punch to the face? Besides that, would you really consider an up-to-no-good frat boy getting a girl blackout drunk and having sex with her to be doing it just to show how much he hates her? Does that make any sense to you?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If the main motivation were to dominate and show power, why would they use their penis?

Because we've inflated rape to the upper echelon of crime, making it a super crime, and so the worst possible thing you can do to a woman, at least in their heads, is not to kill them, maim them or torture them ... no, no, no, it's to have sex with them against their will.

[–]civilsaint[S] 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Because we've inflated rape to the upper echelon of crime, making it a super crime, and so the worst possible thing you can do to a woman

And this is the bait and switch. When someone says rape, they think of a man breaking into a woman's home and beating her and tying her up, but on the other hand, femenists peddle ideas like 'regret equals rape' and 'if he didn't tell you his sexual history, it's rape'. The latter means that if someone cheats in a relationship, then has sex with their partner, that is rape.

They are taking a serious crime and making a mockery of it.

[–]SchalaZeal01 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

At worst it would be how much he disregards her well-being, but this is no different than EB Games clerks not caring about my well-being and wanting to make sales. Objectification in the widest 'everyone does it to nearly everyone' sense.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

i said usually, not always.

[–]Electroverted 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Rape is usually about control and power

Where do people get this shit?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

psychology and psychiatry text books

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_sexual_violence

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

That's not a textbook, it's Wikipedia, which feminists routinely dominate on controversial subjects. Last time I checked, mainstream psychology wasn't saying anything like that. Do you have a source on the textbooks you were referring to?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

can you stop assuming im a feminist please.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

https://www.psychologytoday.com/search/site/rape

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Hmm... didn't find anything on the subject there, and the articles there are neither a textbook nor a curriculum.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

ok

[–]JebberJabber 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Let me explain how Wikipedia works. The article writers have no authority or identity, or even an anonymous ID. The authority flows directly from the source material, which is quoted or referenced. There are eighty references given in the article
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_sexual_violence

These look like mostly academic research published in academic journals and books. There are some references to major news organisations, notably the BBC.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

My point was that they said "text books" and then sent a Wikipedia link instead, and I didn't feel like digging through it to see if there were any text books referenced.

Also, in case you didn't see my other comment: I did some research to find actual scientific research on the subject, and what the actual scientific sources say is that it's usually 100% about sexual desire, but occasionally also about other things mixed in with sexual desire:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201104/is-rape-about-control-or-sex http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3777344/#ref31 http://www.smart.gov/SOMAPI/sec1/ch3_typology.html http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780123860293000152 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0005796779900366 http://courses.washington.edu/evpsych/why%20men%20rape.pdf

[–]Consilio_et_Animis 29 points30 points31 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

"...with a judge saying that rape isn't necessarily an act of gender hatred."

"Every rape is not a gender-motivated hate crime," the judge wrote.

"Her claims of insults about her value as an artist, her looks and her weight are insufficient to constitute extreme, outrageous conduct intolerable in a civilized society,"

Oh dear oh dear oh dear! I hope that judge (a female judge by the way) has a nuclear bomb-proof shelter she can lock herself away in for a few months.

I can hear the Tumblr howling starting...

Triggered!

Note: This is the same comment I have posted elsewhere about this story.

[–]civilsaint[S] 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The judge is definitely the ire of the feminist community, though give the ability of feminists to understand basic math in statistics, I wouldn't worry about them making a nuclear bomb.

[–][deleted] 55 points56 points57 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Dear Judge,

What rape?

Sincerely, Innocent Until Proven Guilty.

[–]civilsaint[S] 27 points28 points29 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

The judge rejected the case.

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points22 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Yes, I'm aware. And in doing so, the judge said, /“There are no facts to support Gottwald’s animus toward women. Gottwald is alleged to have made offensive remarks about Kesha’s weight, appearance, and talent, not about women in general,” Kornreich wrote. “Every rape is not a gender-motivated hate crime.”

To which I query; What rape?

[–]jubbergun 14 points15 points16 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

She was speaking metaphorically, in part to highlight how hyperbolic Kesha's claims were.

[–]mwobuddy 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It cant be that hard to see that nearly all rapes are sexual desire motivated by rationalization and opportunity.

The reason rapefugees do what they do is because in their culture, outsider women who show skin are whores, so there's rationalization to use them for sex against their will.

The judge should've said rape isn't always a crime specifically about gender, or a crime of violence just because reasons.

[–]civilsaint[S] 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The way I took it was that the judge denied her claims, and was just making a point that Kesha was just throwing accusations out without backing them up.

the judge harshly criticized the singer for failing to spell out how her claims met the legal standards for several crimes, such as severe emotional abuse or hate crimes.

I think what the judge was saying is that Kesha spelled out her accusations for sexual assault, but not for the other allegations, but made the comment about rape to show how baseless her accusations are.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points13 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Wow, RawStory just blocked me from the comments section for disagreeing with the narrative...

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

All my comments were just deleted, and they actually made a reference to "disappearing me", which is literally what communist dictators do to censor dissidents:

http://imgur.com/Mvbcoza

[–]Furbysfartparty 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Were you actually trolling? I've been accused of trolling a lot lately for asking questions. I feel like I can't win with anybody anymore.

[–]SchalaZeal01 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

If you don't agree with the hivemind, you're a troll, obviously. Critical thinking is forbidden.

[–]Furbysfartparty 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sounds like the world is on fire.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Modern feminism exhibits most of the characteristics of a cult:

http://abuse.wikia.com/wiki/Cult_checklist

http://csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis.htm

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Modern feminists seem to define trolling as "making any argument against central feminist dogma". This is how they've used it ever since I learned of their existence years ago. The actual definition of trolling is "posting inflammatory statements that you don't even actually believe solely for the purpose of seeing people's reaction and getting them riled up".

[–]omegaphallic 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

There no proof that Kesha was raped and plenty that she wasn't, but the Judges job wasn't to convict or not Dr. Luke, it was to figure out if Kesha had an arguement that Kesha was too damaged to work with Sony, she provided her arguement why she did think so, but she should have clarified this wasn't a judge on Dr. Luke's guilt or innocence, given he hasn't been charged with raping anybody.

[–]thrway_1000 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[Archive of Article Here.]

 


Please think of archiving links to sites that are known to have biased and/or negative representations of men, masculinity, and men's rights -- i.e. The Guardian, Slate, The Telegraph, The Independent, Cracked, BuzzFeed, Vox, Vice, Bustle, Medium, Mic, Huffington Post, Salon, Think Progress, Raw Story, and so on. Or to articles and/or sources that may be controversial, which may be altered and/or removed because of our current culture of censorship. https://archive.is/

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Wasn't Kesha on camera and under oath in court when she made the statement, and I quote: "He never sexually assaulted me or drugged me"

[–]civilsaint[S] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep. But she is claiming that she was afraid to tell the truth.

I forgot the oath was "Do you swear to tell the truth so long as you aren't scared?"

[–]peasant_ascending 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

i think the wording of his statement could've been phrased better. Instead he should have said "NOT every rape is a gender-motivated hate crime." instead it sounds like he's saying rape is never gender-motivated nor about hate.

[–]civilsaint[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

True. I didn't pick up on that. Strange that a judge would word it that way.

[–]Globalization101 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Don't click the link. Is a scam. Never click a rawstory link.

[–]civilsaint[S] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

That's a bizarre post.

I didn't see this story in other media, so I'm glad RawStory covered it.

[–]Globalization101 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

rawstory is an extreme left wing progressive sight. Just sayin.

[–]civilsaint[S] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

True, but they do break stories before others do and sometimes even stories not broken elsewhere, so I wouldn't write them off entirely.

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