A question

kinyutaka · 2016-03-23T15:22:38+00:00

I may be speaking for myself, but I don't hate women at all. I think that men and women should be held as equal as possible, accounting for biology of course, and that feminism is counter to equality.

Feminists want power for women, just as Klansmen want power for whites and Panthers want power for blacks.

But if we want to be an enlightened society, we need to treat everyone with a tiny amount of respect.

aesopstortoise · 2016-03-23T15:37:51+00:00

Unfortunately it makes no difference how we answer the question. Say 'No, I don't hate women' and by virtue of disagreeing with feminist dogma you will be held to have shown that you do, say 'Yes, of course I hate women' and obviously that's that, be a woman who disagrees with feminist dogma and you have 'internalised misogyny'. It's a rigged game, so thank you but I will decline to play.

Feminism changes and expands the meaning of words such as rape and violence, constantly seeks to redefine terms so that women may be seen as victims, and seeks to create a need for itself by promoting fear, a sense of grievance, and minimising, mocking or ignoring the problems facing men and boys. It has become a rotten, stinking corpse of an ideology, and as Thunderf00t says, it poisons everything.

MegaYanm3ga · 2016-03-23T15:34:48+00:00

Misogynist

grammar fix

The whole 'against feminism = misogynist' BS is just there to demonize men more.

Lethn · 2016-03-23T15:55:56+00:00

That is called propaganda and attempt to demonise the 'other' side, look, don't get me wrong, there will be traditionalists and definite extremists lurking around here and every now and then they pop up with extremely sexist comments which of course feminists jump up and down and point at as being evidence of all MRAs being misogynists but what the feminists don't tell you is that people here often challenge them and call them out on their bullshit.

However, it's a lot more complicated than that, MRM is not some monolith organisation like Feminism, where they have clear structure, leaders and public figures it is simply a reaction to the amount of bullshit you see every day coming from Feminists.

You have all sorts of people here, so naturally there are going to be sexist twats who come here thinking they can take advantage of this and become relevant again. For the most part, it's really just regular people who want to freely discuss identity politics without feminists and SJWs shoving into the conversations all the time and banning people who disagree with them.

I think you'll be hard pressed to find any sort of 'official' MRAs here that will call themselves that, because this isn't simply that sort of political movement. Don't get me wrong, there are some and I'm sure they'll be happy to answer you, but this movement is a lot more complicated than Feminists and the media make it out to be. In their rush to label everybody who is against Feminism or criticises it they have simply ended up bringing more and more people here which is what happened to me.

I'm an Anarcho-Voluntaryist by the way which is why I say this and there are all sorts of people lurking around here as well, especially those who don't fit into the neat little pigeon holes on the labels that a lot of people in the mainstream like to use.

There are even Communists and Socialists for fucks sake who end up here, precisely because Feminists are that intolerent of any dissent or criticism they have no other place to go.

TomwaIvory · 2016-03-23T16:58:44+00:00

How many of you guys/girls here actually hate women/think that you are better than women?

Some strongly worded language right here.

Is there some degree of people within the MRM that hates women? Of course.

Is there some degree of people within the general population that hates women, I'm sure there is.

Is there some degree of people within the feminist movement that hate men, that's definitely clear.

Is there some degree of people within the general population that hates men, I'm sure there is.

The place where Men's Rights differs from feminism is the lack of dogma. Men's Rights has no equivalent to patriarchal theory. If you see an issue you're free to explain it however you wish so long as you can provide sufficient evidence.

The goal of the MRM is to have problems fixed, you won't find members of the MRM pushing people to look at things through the "MRM lense" or seeking to prevent discussion outside of a "MRM framework". The focus here is on the people being hurt and the way they're ignored. Feminism is a bad apple, its ideology makes it rotten to the core and it's being torn apart by the lack of accountability within the movement.

Here are some examples of feminists acting without accountability.

Feminist organization NOW (National Organization for Women) fights against default shared parenting keeping children from their fathers.

http://www.nownys.org/archives/leg_memos/oppose_a00330.html

Note the lack of citations and the lean towards the "Fathers are " narrative. In the current situation women are the overwhelming majority of primary caregivers, if they were to split it 50/50 it would be women who are losing out.

Various counts of feminists seeking to prevent discussion:

Feminists attend meeting on Men's Issues and blow noisemakers in order to prevent discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4euzB0CAsCg

Feminists disrupt forum about battered husbands.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qodygTkTUYM

Feminism bang and stomp while disrupting a female speaker talking about Men's rights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Yg-f7fC0Uw

Feminists pull fire alarm to disrupt meeting about Men's Rights:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO_X4DkwA_Q

Feminists attack participants at University of Toronto discussion on men's rights making pig noises and verbally attacking anyone who nears the area.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iARHCxAMAO0

Feminists violently attack peaceful protesters spraying them with pepper spray, spitting on them, and more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOCD_T9Qqpc

[Feminist burns Book written by Feminist Christina Hoff Sommers]

http://www.theblaze.com/blog/2014/06/18/when-a-feminist-near-a-fireplace-grabbed-hold-of-a-copy-of-the-war-against-boys-this-happened/

[Feminists want male feminists to shut the hell up]

http://www.smh.com.au/national/should-male-feminists-just-shut-the-hell-up-20150603-ghfi4w.html

[Feminist writer for the guardian wants men put in camps] "I mean, I would actually put them all in some kind of camp where they can all drive around in quad bikes, or bicycles, or white vans. I would give them a choice of vehicles to drive around with, give them no porn, they wouldn’t be able to fight – we would have wardens, of course! Women who want to see their sons or male loved ones would be able to go and visit, or take them out like a library book, and then bring them back." - Julie Bindel

https://web.archive.org/web/20150904155320/http://www.radfemcollective.org/news/2015/8/29/an-interview-with-julie-bindel

There is a large amount of disdain here towards feminists, but any hatred towards women is rare.

Unlike /r/Feminism there is far far less censorship here, if you see someone making an ass out of themselves or acting hateful then feel free to engage with them and point out said behavior.

aoeusnth0 · 2016-03-23T15:54:56+00:00

Not any more than the amount of feminists hating men. Really, it's pot calling the kettle black. Why don't they take a hard look at their own movement that hates on men? I love women though. So I find it pretty laughable to accuse me the complete opposite of what I am. It's a non-argument anyway, because we are CLEARLY focused on promoting equal laws. Feminists are CLEARLY focused on NOT promoting equal laws. Who's the bad person here, eh?

coppercock · 2016-03-23T16:29:06+00:00

Anyways, my question: Feminists keep on saying

My question: why would you believe them?

PurpleViolettron · 2016-03-23T16:08:03+00:00

Well, I mean, I'm better than most women. I'm definitely more intelligent. I believe in actual equality instead of a society that exists to benefit me as a female person. Which inherently makes me a better person.

Okay, aside from me making jokes, you'll find several people here who act very misogynistic. (Many are MGTOW or Red Pill types. Both of which I'd prefer fuck off from the sub if they aren't going to listen to the parts about equality.) But the majority could be more described as jaded than anything. They're tired of gynocentricism that has been present through all of human history. And they're tired of feminism and its Patriarchy Theory. Because, well, the reality of gynocentricism directly combats Patriarchy Theory. If you don't know what I'm talking about, I think this is where watching Karen Straughan get yelled over by Cenk Uygur comes in handy. If I remember correctly (it's been a while since I sat through that frustrating video), much of what Karen says in that video is evidence of how society has pretty much always been structured to benefit women.

lostapwbm · 2016-03-23T15:57:21+00:00

Feminists keep on saying that if your an MRA, or against feminism in general, then you are misogyny.

Misogyny doesn't actually mean anything, so its application to me doesn't bother me. I haven't beaten up any women. I haven't robbed any women. I haven't cost a woman their job (though women have tried to get me fired). I haven't even taken a woman's vagina. The extent of my "misogyny" is that I make fun of women when they do stupid shit. Then I go on about my business.

If you call me a misogynist, then a misogynist doesn't amount to much of an actual threat to any woman.

hackableyou · 2016-03-23T20:55:31+00:00

Wanting men to have equal rights to women is not msyongy. Most of us here do not hate women and if there are some who do it is not because they are an mra, it is just because they hate women.

To demonstrate the different levels of tolerance mras have over feminists, perhaps consider posting the opposite question in /r/feminism. (I.e. Mras say that feminists are misandrists. How many of you guys are misandrists?). I am being facsiois when I say this, don't actually do it. You will at best get your post removed, and possibly get banned from /r/feminism for doing that. I say this because I believe that mras want to seek the truth and as such welcome desenting opinions. /r/feminism in my opinion is just creating an echo chamber of hate and victim hood.

TamidMT · 2016-03-24T02:30:41+00:00

Feminists keep on saying that if your an MRA, or against feminism in general, then you are [a misogynist].

This is what's called a kafka trap: a logical fallacy and guilt trip rolled into one. It's explained very well here.

To answer your question, I certainly don't hate women: I hate what women are being told in the name of feminism. I spent a long time as a feminist because I thought it was a noble and necessary cause, only to slowly find that so much of what I had read was not true (including all five of these popular claims). So much of their movement is built on falsehood, and if I believed them as an empathetic man, I can only imagine how enticing it is for a woman to whom the content is catered. "It's tricky", says Christina Hoff Sommers. "For some kids campus feminism is like a cult. New identity plus a beguiling conspiracy theory with clear enemies."

I don't hate women: I believe that they're worth more than the victims and infants they're being told they are.

Title	A question
Author	inconvenient_
Upvotes	5
Comments	17
Date	March 23, 2016 3:18 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/4bmwjl/a_question/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/a-question.953447 https://theredarchive.com/post/953447

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